This tweet was made minutes after Hamas announced that Israel had bombed the hospital. At the time the post was made there was exactly nothing to go off of but the word of Hamas, and yet this supposed American congresswoman (I really question her loyalties) and the rest of the Arab/Muslim world uncritically took this bad faith actor at their word. At the time Hamas announced Israel had attacked the hospital they wouldn't even have had any way of knowing that was the truth or not (unless they knew they were lying all along, which seems likely to be the case).

And since that time there is a lot of conflicting information who bombed the hospital, or whether it was intentional or not (most of the evidence, including from Al Jazeera, seems to indicate Palestinian militants accidentally misfired a rocket and set off an ammo dump inside the hospital). And yet this Congresswoman has elected to keep this post up; indicating the word of Hamas is good enough for her and she has her truth and that is all that matters.

And she isn't alone. Most Arab/Muslim nations made similar statements, again minutes after the event happened when they had no way of knowing what happened other than what Hamas told them.

At some point we have to acknowledge that most of the Arab/Muslim world is, and is going to continue to be, bad faith actors and this is going to make any type of reconciliation impossible. And I see no dynamic that is going to change this reality.

Even if you accept the entire case Bill Haywood lays out against Israel/US (which at least is rooted in facts, unlike someone like Victor that just makes up whatever fits their ideology) it doesn't change at all how bad faith the other side has been and continues to be. And any talk about a 3 state, 2 state or 1 state solution that just kind of glosses over this point is kind of missing the giant elephant in the room why all this talk of a solution is nothing but hot air.

I'd imagine that's exactly what you'd tell a hostage in that situation.

Of course, the ones who get shot in the head after being told this don't get to tell their story.

There is plenty of webcam footage of Hamas gunmen pretending they weren't going to kill civilians they had hunted down, and then doing it anyways. I really dont know what the rhyme or reason was for who they decided to kill or capture.

I suspect they just decided ahead of time that a specific 100 (or whatever) militants would take back hostages, and the rest would kill civilians until they too were killed.

We learned the lesson after WWI: when you defeat an enemy your options are to completely vanquish them or allow and aid them to get their pride and self-reliance back. If you don't they'll devote their energies towards getting strong enough to turn on you their oppressors. Obviously after WWII there were a lot of other factors in play than just that, but by and large we made allies out of our enemies.

Our media wasn't that bad but it did run with the "Israeli strike...." I'm sure they'll apologize for helping Hamas achieve their goals.

really hard to believe this was a Hamas rocket. gonna need a bit more than "Israel said so".

That could make sense. But it's hard to believe for me.

Idk nothing about the Lebanon thing. Will try to find some infos.

Anyway at this point it is hard to know how it happened. The only sure thing it that this will change the course of things drastically, and not in a good way.

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its pretty simple to me , both sides are quick to point out the atrocities of the other and you rationalize the one you are biased for. you are clearly biased towards israel , im leaning 30% towards the Palestinian side .

1 side has been bombing buildings and has the military capacity to blow up the building the way it went .
israel twitter is still spreading disinformation.

whoever is hardcore one way will rationalize and agree with whatever their side does.


to me and those more unbiased,

Hamas is evil , Likud cant be trusted and also evil , IDF also can't be trusted , just like the USA's Pentagon cant be trusted . They are all playing war games.

sadly , us civialins are caught in the middle , and the ones who are catching the worse is it are the Palestinians and all other countries/regions that are being occupied and killed by the hundreds at a clip

Yes, all media outlets were originally running this story as an air strike, not just the Arab ones ffs…

the 40 decapitated babies , i still see many on twitter and news outlet making that a talking point , is it true then because i did not see if they found out about it

Caught somewhere in time. We went back there, and
they'd come and hacked off all the inoculated arms.

It's true here with the landlord. Extrapolate

The American MSM had no way of knowing if it was an air strike other than taking the word of Hamas at face value either.

If you think the American MSM jumping the gun and probably getting it wrong is going to sway me that it is a responsible position, then you haven't been paying attention.

FWIW, the MSM have all walked it back from the original announcement it was an air strike (when they had no way of knowing it was), and should never have published it that way in the first place. Horrible, unethical, irresponsible journalism.

You do? Can you cite any news outlets using 40 decapitated babies as a recent talking point? I'll wait.

One narrative I’ve not heard really questioned is that Israel is justified in what it’s doing now because Hamas is an existential threat. Certainly Hamas would like to be. There’s no question that that is their goal. But does that actually reflect reality? Is there any fighting in Israel? Has anyone in Israel died since the massacre? It’s seems completely one sided since then. Are 30-40k islamists going to overrun one of the most advanced militaries in the world backed by the entire western world? I get the necessity to show your crazy neighbors that you’re not going to take **** but I think that’s been achieved. Israel doesn’t need to kill every last Hamas fighter right now to prevent further catastrophe. If they backed off now and took a more long term approach at targeting the power structure, what would be the near term outcome, rocket attacks as usual and maybe some attempts at attacks on the border again. None of that seems existential. On the other hand, continuing in Gaza and drawing in other regional powers seems like a much higher chance of danger to the existence of Israel. Am I missing something here?

I didn’t say it was responsible. I said it happened in Western MSM too, not just among Arab media like your post suggested. Media of all origins are motivated by getting clicks. It has also happened with things Israel has claimed that have since been walked back. It’s not exclusively the anti-Israel faction as you’re suggesting.

Do you think Congresswoman Talib is going to walk it back? Do you think the Arab leaders who have already cancelled their meetings with Biden are going to walk it back? Do you think Iran, that has called for a day of Jihad and is posting that time is up for Israel, is going to walk it back?

Your position is that Israel should unilaterally decide to turn the other cheek and be a good faith actor, while the other side offers absolutely nothing, and are held to zero expectations for good faith conduct at all. That is a lot to ask for.

I doubt any of them will walk it back but that’s also not my position on Israel…

The international hostages being held in Gaza?

I obviously don’t think they should forget about the hostages. Negotiating for them is probably the best way to get them back. This also has nothing to do with the existential threat.

https://nitter.net/Osinttechnical/st...687070916987#m

Looking more like it’s not an IDF bomb. Damage looks pretty minimal. I guess the people killed must have been gathered in the parking lot.

Negotiate how? Any peaceful settlement with Hamas would undoubtedly see them with a favourable outcome, as they know we place greater value on human life than they do.

Hamas could put a great deal of international pressure on Israel to de-escalate by releasing all their civilian hostages. One side has to make the first move, so why not them?

Reminds me of:

Negotiation like any other negotiation? Is it more important to continue to stick it to Hamas right now or get those people back? I agree that releasing the hostages should be Hamas’ move, I don’t agree that Israel should just leave it in their court.

idf places much much greater value on their people's human life.
its obvious by kill count that every life isnt considered equal

You're missing nothing here

unless it's at some 'higher' level of israel seeing a nuclear iran as the existential threat and escalation now being what is required to survive