You are probably confusing Egypt and Israel. Egypt was MUCH more aggressive destroying the tunnels in the south and making sure new ones weren't built, as geopolitical realities have allowed them to operate in their nation's best interest without the global microscope of criticism Israel has.

Dun, have you seen this:



They can't confirm anything yet.
But it wouldn't wonder me if this is actually happening. Mexico is friends with Palestine and the cartels are with Hamas.

https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-train...states-1833860

tunnels are alwaws being found from time to time. about 2 years ago this found this bad boy, who knows how long it was up for. this was the longest tunnel ever that they found. but these tunnels always exist. even right now.

'Stretching for 4,309ft (1,313m), the tunnel had a lift, rail track, drainage and air ventilation systems, and high voltage electrical cables. The passageway connected an industrial site in the Mexican city of Tijuana to the San Diego area in California.30.01.2020'
https://www.bbc.com › news › worl...

It may well not, but I'm suggesting just like it sounds. One state with all being citizens.

I could be wrong, but aren't you old like me? (50s)

Even in 1980 most people would have thought universal citizenship in South Africa would be impossible.

I'm not saying it's likely, but big changes often seem very unlikely not too long beforehand, so not impossible.

The person I linked to was taken from his home by the IDF and didn't point a gun at anyone. You don't know what the breakdown of the 1200+ "detainees" is and Israel won't tell you or even them why they are held.

countries that recognize Palestine
https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...nize-palestine

this year Mexico:

I checked his Wikipedia, and it explicitly states the Israeli govt states he cannot engage in activism as part of his release program (the Amnesty article doesn't include this fact, as it doesn't fit their narrative). And in that Amnesty article he admits he will not stop. So he keeps getting arrested and detained basically for intentional parole violations.

I mean, you can completely disagree with the Israeli govt and agree with his stance as an objector, but it isn't a mystery why he continually keeps getting arrested and held.

South Africa is on the brink of being the next failed state. Crime is off the charts. They struggle to provide basic services like like sanitation and water, and every day life includes rolling blackouts. At best it's a kleptocracy over there right now, and potentially much worse very soon. The 33% unemployment rate is only going up, and I don't know if there's a single segment of their economy and life that's not totally corrupt. So as models go, I don't really know if that's the one to shoot for. I did have a look at the mechanics of how they did it (which in the end lead to 25% of the white population just leaving, and hey maybe that's full circle). I think it's certainly the model to NOT follow in this case. But you're right, the general idea was valid.

Honestly it's really hard. It's all predicated on believing that any Jews are "allowed" to live in Israel. And what some posters have been trying to explain is that it's been made pretty clear that the answer to that is "no". It's a hard place to start a 1 state solution from, isn't it? That would be the starting point in a dream world different than this one.

Yeah, it's not a mystery. He's a political prisoner being held for speech. Calling it parole violation is like saying it's ok because Israel says it's legal. Israel also says it's legal to detain people indefinitely without charge. The US does that too. It's not ok and it's just kidnapping/abduction and not legal arrest whether it's the USA or Israel or Hamas or North Korea doing it.

Why won’t Israel let Palestinians live in Israel?

As a sort of aside and speaking of water in SA and as you likely know, they almost ran out of water in Cape Town, not because of corruption, but because of drought and ordinary waste. After a large campaign they drastically cut water usage and waste and indefinitely put off turning off the water supply.

And for sure hard and definitely imo no one should be kicked out of their homes - Jews or Palestinians.

1.6 million do, but it would be good if the rest could as well.

But that's the hardest part imho. No killing/violence AND no resettling? I don't know how to get there. It would look like a machine to vanish Hamas (and foreign influence) and all the hardcore right wing Israelis. And if you somehow did manage that, then you still have to solve for the crazy Jerusalem situation so steeped in extreme religious beliefs (on both sides) that you never arrive at something acceptable to all. And that's an element I think was largely not present in South Africa (so many diverse holy sites in a dense area).

Trauma is passed down generationally. All these people aren't just living their own. They're also inheriting it. So some very powerful force would need to come along to collectively convince all these people that there's a bigger cause to unite over. I dunno, aliens/climate change in advanced states/AI Terminator 2 scenario. Short of that, there's no 1 state solution. And you're talking to a pie in the sky optimist over here.

Maybe there's some obscure scenario where Iran's present regime falls as step 1, and somehow overall regional (like the whole middle east) stability arrives. I guess then you would have the first glimmer of hope. Some sort of big regional technology and investment boom where the tide rises all boats, and there's a broader foundation to be hopeful about. But in the age of oil maybe eventually being phased out and water becoming an issue, I'm not sure that's the most likely thing to expect long-term, regionally.

that's why



BLM chicago was ******ed or something. Or that's how they really think more or less. anyway, they are trying to kill each other would be the reason imo.

https://www.nypost.com/2023/10/11/bl...araglider/amp/

If you don't know pointless Hamas came with parachutes and then shot innocent civilians and babies.
And then these idiots with 60.000 followers tweeted this.

It's not. From a moral point of view, murdering, raping and torturing women and children practically has no moral equivalent. However, just because Hamas has set the bar so low, it does not mean Israel just has to clear their standard. Israel still has a moral duty to uphold the Geneva Convention and should rightly be open to criticism when it doesn't.

However, Israel may well view this as an existential threat. If they uphold the highest moral standards and end up getting wiped off the map, then the moral bragging rights are not particularly worth much.

Don't think we need to get too distracted with BLM or all the rest. What's the o/u on the next major terror attack on US soil? 5 years? That's going to swing the pendulum back, and round and round we'll go.

This is Western Europe and not the USA, but another reminder that things can change a lot in a generation. Most people probably don't even know about the Euskadi Ta Askatasuna in Spain or the Red Army Faction in Germany in the 70s.

And things may always seem like they are getting worse, but they aren't always.

No need for tunnels if there are no walls

Yes that's true about SA 10 years before Mandela was released, but there are some big differences that make progress in Israel much tougher - the two SA sides weren't at war with each other, I don't think the mutual hatred between the two "governments" was nearly as severe and the situation hadn't gone further and further into decline. Then there's the thing I've mentioned before about SA being ostracised by the international community while Israel is generally strongly supported by non-Muslim states.

Not impossible but very unlikely without different rulers in place.

in Germany there just was one in 2016. and there was never anything like it. this was an illegal, a refugee with a long crime record. But they didn't throw him out. we have thousand like that now. in the US I would be worried too. Mexico controls the borders. and not the official Mexico but the cartels. this is all relatively new. They can get anyone in at anytime. They are friends with Palestine.

in fact read this, it's coming from a cartel boss:

The 60s/70s/80s in the West were decades of terrorism/freedom fighters when young people wanted to overthrew capitalism or colonial rule, and some were prepared to die if necessary. Some of them won concessions, some of them became absorbed into more mainstream politics, some disappeared.

These are different times. No one talks about overthrowing capitalism much despite its obvious failings, hardly even on twitter which if it was around in the 60s/70s would be full of chat about it.

You don't like trump, but I would prefer him now.

Hamas is less than 5% of the Palestinians stuck in Gaza. Why doesn’t Israel allow them inside? The Bible would say to help them.

Ok I appreciate your explanation. I tend to view it a short retort to the "both sides bad" take. But will think about this some more.