There's a disconnect here. Millions of people live under military occupation. It is ugly and brutal. That's not propaganda. You are failing to empathize with the people.

Does anyone doubt Hamas knew full well what the Israeli response (with emphasis on response) would be and that their own people would be in the firing line? And that they don't care as they'll happily use their own people as pawns, due to their being a bunch of bloodthirsty fanatics?

Israel didn't aggressively invade Gaza. Gaza via Hamas aggressively invaded Israel. So how about we don't?

Both sides are guilty of this and both sides are culpable when they pull the trigger on civilians. This “Hamas uses human shields” argument as a way to hand wave away killing civilians is insane disregard for life. If a murderer hides behind hostages you don’t get to shrug and shoot through the hostages to get to the murderer and then blame the murderer for their death. Sucks for you but you’re going to have to find another way to deal with them.

I think that's probably correct. They're getting the response that they want. And they'll be hoping it escalates as much as possible

While hatred towards Hamas is perfectly understandable and even something I can agree with, this is not an excuse for bigotry towards all Muslims. Saying that any group of people is inherently worse than another is not conducive to civil conversation and not allowed in this forum.

Right, so we've reached the core of your beliefs which appears to be that Jewish people and culture are inherently superior to Muslim. who you seem to regard as primitives. You only have to look at the historic spread and influence of Islamic culture across supposedly advanced Europe to see how risibly false your claims are.

I don't suppose I'm allowed to point out the other famous group of people 100 years ago who also believed they were superior to every other group and brought the West to its knees, because that would be anti-Semitic.

In conflating Hamas with all Muslims you're making the same error that anti-Semites do when they conflate the state of Israel with all Jewish people.

Don't change what I said and don't misquote me either, the mods made mention of this in the moderation thread. The Israeli government are reacting to an aggressive Hamas invasion so don't try turn it around and put your own spin on things just because your ideology, politics and sympathies.

It's a war. US firebombed Tokyo and British bombed Dresden due to them having munitions factories and fully knew Dresden also had a civilian populace. Hamas are using their populace as human shields just as they're happy for them to die so they can have more martyrs. And bad $hit happens in war. Civilians die in air strikes in war. Huge difference between that and actually targeting civilians and gleefully murdering them because they happen to be Jews.
If Israel launched an assassination campaign against Hamas leaders like they did against Black September after Munich, you'd condemn that too, because Israel bad, the end. Nothing they do would be good in your eyes while any attacks against them can always be justified or at the very least excused because reasons.

Conflicts like this should be seen in bottom line terms and bottom line, if I had to choose, I would choose Israel over Hamas any day of the week and there's nothing you could say that would convince me otherwise.

Muslim People when given free elections choose fundamentalist leaders. This is why the West has stopped pushing for free elections in the Middle East.

I am not saying Jews are smarter than the Muslims, just that the Muslims would opt for Fundamentalism over market economies. Please don't conflate my views with biological superiority beliefs which are of course abhorrent.

So quick to threaten to censor me because my beliefs clash with your effete liberalism. Try to engage without the threat of Banning me.

I don't think anti semites are making an error at all. the State of Israel in many ways does reflect real Torah Judaism.

Not the Multicultural pandering Tikkun Olam Bullshit that embraces BLM and comprises so much American Liberal Judaism.

Many Jewish people don't ally themselves with the state of Israel, which is why it's anti-Semitic to conflate the two. Plus of course there's the 20% of the Israeli population who aren't Jewish.

I don't think labels like racist anti semitic transphobic Islamophobic et al are particularly useful. More loaded terms Liberals like to throw out when they can't win the argument on its merits.

I would agree that many Jews are not authentic Torah Jews and for them Multiculturalism and the BLM Social Justice Soros Agenda is their Religion, and the State of Israel is inherently racist and in no ways reflects their beliefs.

You still haven't explained why you believe that if all Muslims in that region moved to a completely safe Island 5,000 Miles away in the Atlantic Ocean, in 50 years, the Muslim island would be a barren shithole.

Also, who is Soros and what is his agenda?

Because the Jews would prioritize developing a market economy and the Muslims would prioritize faithful adherence to Sharia Law.

I'm not misquoting you, in the sense that I'm trying to create a straw man, which I would guess is the point of the rule if there is one. I'm deliberately pointing out that the argument cuts both ways, which is why it's a ridiculous argument. If mods want to police me for it fine, but I don't really care what you think. Again, Hamas believes it is reacting to Israeli crimes. Both sides are in the wrong even though there is truth to the greivences of each side. You don't get to start the clock on Saturday because it aligns with your ideology.

Bad **** happens in war is disgusting handwaving. And those were crimes and would have been treated as such if the Allies had not won. I also doubt very much that surivivors care whether their family members were directly targeted or were merely inconsequentional "collateral damage".


Not true, but I get that it makes your lack of humanity feel more justifiable because of beliefs like this about your critics. Go after the leadership, bring them to justice. In a just world Netanyahu, Bush, Obama, etc would be brought to justice as well. But we live in a world where people can't escape barbaric tribalism.


Who the **** is asking you to consider choosing Hamas, lol? They are savages. Just recognize that your team are too, they just have better publicists. This is the problem. It's not easy black and white. There is no good guy here other than the civilians of both populations.

George Soros is a Hungarian Jew who saved his life during the Holocaust by posing as a Christian and helping the Nazis loot Jewish wealth and find and execute Jews who were hiding.

He then made billions destabilizing currencies most notably in the UK and Thailand.

His Agenda is promoting Lawlessness in Urban cities by electing DAs who will not prosecute many crimes and doing his best to push for globalization rather than National borders.

As is my understanding. I am not as bright as many of you in this thread, so I hope my cognitive superiors can further educate me.

You should read more from a wider variety of sources than you currently have.

Spread of Islam

There are books and sources I would advise you to read as well and would link them, but our effete Mod would threaten to ban me if I were to do so...

But I don't doubt many Muslim people and countries have accomplished Great things. It seems right now Adherence to Sharia Law is preventing many of them from flourishing in the new economy unless they have been blessed with Oil Reserves.

But all respect I will check out your sources

He was 14

He was precocious in his treachery.

This is not at all personal or about my beliefs, of which you know very little. In fact, I moderate more lightly when I'm personally engaging on a topic so as to avoid the appearance of a using power. But your posts have gone right up to the line, and at times beyond, that which is laid out in the forum rules -- a thread that has existed since before I became a mod. You'll notice that plenty of others in this thread have made very pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian posts without any problem.

I think I can make reasonable extrapolations as to your beliefs. Maybe I have surmised wrong and you are super conservative in reality.

I understand your broader point, I am not a diplomat and I will lay bare my real beliefs without dressing them up in political niceties, and at its core Israel is a Jewish State and therefore inherently racist. So it tough to really defend them while abiding by Liberal Forum rules.

I see this war as Jew vs Muslim not Hamas vs Israel. I am not going to apologize or backdown off this stance. If that means you have to ban me that feels a little heavy handed but you have all the power here, so do whatever allows you to sleep best at night.

If this war is "Jew vs Muslim" which side are the 1.5 million Muslims in Israel on?