These over 750 victims on the Israeli side go on account of Lebanon.
How did these fighters attack?
Well they shot missiles at towers at the border and they took towers out with cheap drones with explosives. So the isralies didn't know what hit them.
wtf are the israelis doing at their border? why is it so weak that they can just fly drones over it and drop stuff?

anyway, That's what happened. No Gaza attack, Hamas Hezbollah attack from Lebanon imo. Pretty certain the attack came from Gaza too. But what really did the damage now came from Lebanon. 50-100 Lebanese or even more who made it through the border and attacked with explosives on Israeli ground.

First they said it was Hamas.
Now it's Hamas/ Hezbollah.

If they are not leaving anyone out again it's those 2.

Both messed with each other and there was undeniable injustice and discrimination in the North to the point where it led to a civil rights movement that then morphed into what was known as The Troubles. And I understand the sense of injustice and anger that led some to wish to strike back or felt they had to take up arms. But the IRA lost any moral high ground by committing atrocities such as those mentioned. All it did was cause misery to ordinary English families of victims and sicken most Irish people.

I further understand to a degree Palestinian anger. But they also lose any moral high ground via Hamas's wholesale slaughter of innocent people. There seems to be a jubilant attitude on their part regarding such slaughter too. They knew damn well Israel would retaliate and their own people would suffer horribly and they couldn't care less. They're an evil bunch of anti Semitic zealot thugs.

yeah like the RAF in Germany.
had followers but messed up eventually. cause extremist are crazies.

I just found a fun quote, by Thomas Jefferson:

'The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.'

I don't think shooting up public libraries and music festivals was what TJ had in mind.

Why would an entire people lose moral grounding for what one group did? Shall we apply this principle to Israel too -- they can't complain about murdered civilians because that's what the settlers on the West Bank do to olive farmers?

We don't want to dwell on what was really on child slave-rapist Thomas Jefferson's mind, do we?

Still a bit bitter about that whole declaration of independence fiasco, huh?

How many children did he behead?

I'm not sure how easy it is to just target Hamas. Either way, I think Hamas put the Israelis in full Daenerys Targaryen mode and they are probably ok with just burning it all down at this point.

the israeli army seems to have already backed off that claim, now that it got the outrage it needed to get. so could be the same amount.

the leg tattoo girl has also turned up in a gaza hospital alive apparently according to her mother. (eta- to be clear, she was still kidnapped and hurt and that's horrific, but the 10,000 posts about her being dead that were amplified everywhere on tiwtter have been proven false.)

On the contrary, can you imagine trying to administrate that ****ing circus now?

I assume they're going to try to take actions that don't risk going to war with everyone else in the middle east-- so probably not burning it all down.

That doesn't shock me. IIRC the claim of Iraqis stealing incubators from Kuwaiti babies turned out to be false.

This is equal parts sick and pure fiction. Just making stuff up as he goes.

My sister and her family live in Israel. We've been in contact but this really sucks. Not sure there's anywhere they can go. Sigh.

It is sick

Settler violence against Palestinians has seen a substantial uptick over the last year, occurring at a rate of three per day for the first eight months of 2023, according to the United Nations.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2...town-of-huwara

They only killed them, but didn’t behead.

This is the argument…

Hamas=bad. israeli government=bad. misinformation to try and dehumanize, outrage, and excuse further violence=bad.

140 children have been reported to have been killed by the israeli government in the last two days. is the 40 possible beheadings better or worse than the 140 that have been bombed? it's all bad and horrific and none of it is justified.

Last time I checked Hamas was the elected govt of the Gaza Strip, with high approval both internally and across the Arab World. And there stated aim is the eradication of the state of Israel, and have been vigorously working towards said aim for the last 20+ years.

Given this reality, and the events of the last few days, there is literally no country in the world that wouldn't be doing exactly what Israel is doing, if they could. Any Arab country would be responding far more aggressively. If anything, Israel's historical restraint has allowed the situation to fester and cause much more human suffering than necessary.

I just dont see why holding one side to an impossible level of restraint no one else would ever adhere to, while the other side does the opposite is constructive in any way. Can anyone think of one historical example they could point to that would be a model for how Israel should be behaving right now?

It is pretty clear the Arab countries calling for restraint are just acting in bad faith, and are just using what they perceive as weakness of the Western world to their advantage. So I dont really fault them along these lines. But it is truly bizarre how detached from reality of how the world actually works progressives can be, when ideologically convenient.

the election was in 2006... half the population of gaza wasn't even alive the last time there was an election... dissenting voices have been assassinated both by hamas and israel. i wonder why it polls well when asked.. lol.

Does anyone doubt that the Israeli response in Gaza will kill far more civilians than Hamas did?

Gazans report their homes being destroyed without warning. "Lt. Col. Richard Hecht of the Israeli Defense Forces said that the Israeli Air Force was too stretched to fire the warning strikes — known as “roof knocks” — that it has fired in previous Gaza conflicts to encourage Palestinian civilians to leave an area before it is hit with larger missiles. He said that Israel was telling Gazans to move from areas that would be targeted, and advised them to leave through the Rafah border crossing with Egypt.

But hours later, on Tuesday, the Israeli military bombed the crossing, shutting it down."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/w...irstrikes.html

I am not saying Israel is deserving of any higher moral ground. I am just saying they are a nation of humans, like everyone else. And the response is entirely predictable, and not a single group of humans is above responding like this. And there is no historical or logical reason why they should be held to a different standard, other than pure racism/antisemitism/transferred white guilt, which is the root of most of the condemnation coming from Westerners, as far as I can surmise.

The Muslim Arabs for their part harbor no moral confusion. That is why we see that all the historical Christian and Jewish communities that lasted millennias in the Middle East, have all been genocided out of existence. That is Israel's fate too, if they allow it.

I am sure the world would be much better off if Israel had never been created, and the Jewish diaspora had been allowed to emigrate to the US when the Nazis rose to power, preferably before most of them had been executed.

But that isn't what happened, and in 2023 they are up against an elected govt that has vowed to wipe them from existence, and has shown no moral compunctions at all to do whatever they feel is necessary to achieve this end; and in the backdrop the expectations for Israel are frankly insane.

What other country in the world has carried out a 50 year military occupation and implemented a fully completed system of apartheid?

No, the criticism is based on the historical record. Which posts in this thread have exhibited "pure racism/antisemitism/transferred white guilt."