Pretty hard to imagine how there can ever be peace after this.

Amazing we need a mod to clarify this isn’t ?
Ps: and I’m Far being pro Israel …but I do use my brain and understand it .

Not sure if you read what I posted. But let's ignore the specifics of this case. Let me ask you a question in a vacuum.

One country (A) attacks another country (B). The citizens of A democratically elected the leadership that chose to attack B.
B defends itself by attacking back and begins destroying A. When asked what they think of the original attack on B, the majority of A's citizens agree with the attack and the majority of A's citizens agree with the goal of completely taking over the territory of B. So, B continues to destroy A.

In this parable, do the citizens of A deserve any of the blame for what is happening to them?


Montrealcorp, gotwoot, Trolly McTrollson are all free to answer this hypothetical question, as well.

I think you summarize it well .
Now if u can’t even get it when you even write so eloquently what else can we say ?

So your interpretation for 9/11 , it’s all good USA would of bomb 2-3 nuclear war head on Afghanistan in retaliation to 9/11 , especially Americans agreeing with it ….

Relativity is a important concept I suppose , more so when thousands if not tens of thousands of life are at stake .
It’s ok you disagree I suppose but you will find no more pity for your side afterwards from me ….

Moshe Yaalon, a former defense minister for Netanyahu, is one of the highest placed figures to state the obvious: Israel is ethnically cleansing northern Gaza for settlements.

I do believe than in a democracy we all bear some moral resposnsibility for our what our coutnry does. That is a totally different category to deserving to being destroyed by bombs/etc.

I dont for a moment believe the ICJ should issue arrest warrants against all israelis but that is what you are arguing. Israel is far more democratic and you are really condemning all Israelis (and american and brits for what our countries have done in iraq etc). I'd reject any argument that any Israeli actions before October 7 could possible mean they weren't innocent victims.

Ah. I see that we are discussing different points.

Do I believe the Palestinian people deserve to suffer the hell of war? No. But this was never the question or my point.

The original question is "are the Palestinian people INNOCENT VICTIMS"? No. I do not think so. To reiterate, the Palestinian people in Gaza elected Hamas to represent them and the majority of Palestinian people believe that Israel should be destroyed. If the war were to stop today, and a cease fire put in place, Hamas would use all the resources given to the Palestinian people to re-arm themselves, build more tunnels, and gain strength enough to attack Israel again. The Palestinians in Gaza, as a majority, would agree with Hamas doing this. This makes them enablers. They are therefore definitionally not innocent. Yes, of course there are those in Gaza who want peace and who do not support Hamas. They are the innocent victims. But they are in the minority.

Because the Palestinians are brainwashed I feel sorry for them. I truly wish that something could change their mindset wherein they would be willing to live in peace next to Israel. But since the Palestinians, themselves, do not want this, peace is currently not an option. A war was started by Hamas, and now the Palestinians people are suffering terribly because this time Israel has said "Never Again". I do not believe anybody credible wants this war, and the misery it is causing. But, sadly, much of the world enables this war and therefore deserves blame for what is happening.

I do not believe that many of the posters here are "innocent". Many of the posters here have outright said that they do NOT believe that Israel has the right to exist and I am quite sure that a number of them chant from "the river to the sea" with complete sincerity. By keeping alive the notion that the destruction of Israel is a viable option, enablers here on this board and around the world make it impossible for Israel to stop what it is doing.

If anyone deserves "blame" for what is happening, it is Iran and its enablers. The world could demand that Iran stop funding Hamas, and to stay out of an issue that has nothing to do with them. But the world stays silent on that because there are many in the world who want Israel destroyed (or at least they wouldn't care if it actually happened). What most people fail to understand is that Israel's primary goal is not the destruction of the Palestinian people. It is happening, but it isn't the goal. Israel's primary goal is to destroy the idea that there can be a future without Israel. Very few seem able to grasp this, and therefore they are incapable of understanding the harm they are causing the Palestinian people by keeping that idea alive. The more the world believes there is anything other than the binary option of total destruction or total peace, the more the world enables the plight of the Palestinians.

It's the same point. Maybe semantics but only if we agree that Palestinians are innocent victims in the same way those killed by hamas on October 7th were innocent victims.

I agree the Iranian leadership bear a lot of responibility but the iranian people would be innocent victims (in the ame way) if a war breaks out. The USA bears a huge responisbility but again the people would be innocent victims.

I do believe all the posters here would be innocent victims if Israel or hamas/etc killed them. Nothing we say makes us guilty of anythign that justifies that killing.

Great parable for those ignorant enough to think this all started on October 7th.

hes saying that they need to accept an oppressive, violent, extractive occupation with no rights or else they deserve to get exterminated. why he thinks this is the interesting part.

Why are you hiding behind this "A" and "B" nonsense? These aren't hypothetical people being massacred.

To answer your question, no, Israel does not have the right to murder civilians and commit genocide. Kinda think you understand the basic truth of this, which is why you need hypotheticals and mountains of sophistry to convince yourself otherwise.

how is it possible to be this evil?

Treating humans as animals seems to be par for the course for the IDF.

gg "ceasefire"

more on the usage of loudspeakers to lure civilians out and murder them. again, this is another thing that was reported on for months by Gazans on the ground before a mainstream outlet picked up on it.

https://x.com/receipts_lol/status/1863604876892053591

I watched the video and there didn’t seem to be any videos of these drones emitting baby sounds. The lady in the video did have several flies buzzing around her head though. Very distracting.

Months of reporting yet no videos, odd. There was a video of a drone emitting a warning along the lines of “do not resist or be shot.”

At a certain point, you’d think to tone down the blatant propaganda. Israel is surely committing atrocities and stepping over the line but it’s just tiresome having to wade though an ocean of misinformation any time you engage the topic.

somewhere around 99% of the things I have posted have turned out true. anyone else remember when you guys called these things lies:

-quadcopters shooting people
-snipers sniping children
-hospitals getting bombed
-rape torture camps
-human shields
-forcing civilians to investigate tunnels
-amputating prisoners for fun and profit
-Hamas offering the hostages for nothing

I’m not entirely sure what it is you take away from our posts. Based on this parable it would seem as if in your mind we are celebrating Hamas’ attack on October 7th and place none of the blame on them. That we believe that every single Palestinian person can do no harm and is unequivocally innocent simply by virtue of being born Palestinian.

Similarly, it would be foolish for me, or anyone, to think that every living Israeli is purely and only evil and must be destroyed.

OR VICE VERSA… that all Palestinians are evil and all Israelis are innocent.

Only a deranged, uneducated or inhumane person can think and feel this way about any conflict.

The irony is that it is you who claims there are no innocent civilians in Palestine.

Maybe the things you say have some shred of truth to them, but 99% of your posts misrepresent the facts. Even now you’re back peddling. Now it’s just there are “quadcopters shooting people.” That’s clearly not what you or the tweet were trying to convey. It’s been pointed out repeatedly that your dishonest style of posting is very transparent.

Im not backpedaling anything. the baby sounds will be proven to you and everyone else to the same extent all those other formerly denied things are now just accepted as facts by even the Western media.

Correct. It started when Arabs immediately began attacking Israel once it became a country. Their goal was the destruction of Israel.

Over time Israel has made lasting peace with most of their original enemies, and continues to expand friendly relations with many Arab countries. Except, of course, for Hamas, Hezbollah, and, at the center of it all, Iran.

Israel kinda does have that right to destroy their non-surrendering enemy when the alternative is their genocide. That is, after all, the stated goal of Hamas and Iran, something I do not see you complaining about.

Not that you seem to care, but Israel is not targeting citizens, and I view these claims as antisemitic in their effect. Palestinian citizens are placed in danger by Hamas. Not Israel's fault. It is impossible to avoid civilian causalities given how Hamas has waged its war. It is impossible to stop destroying Hamas given that they refuse to give up on their goal of destroying Israel.

I still do not see anyone demanding that Iran stop supporting Hamas. I still do not see anyone demanding that Hamas give up their goal of destroying Israel. I guess that's because many people here like what Iran and Hamas are doing and would also like to see Israel destroyed. This, of course, if why Israel won't relent. Blame yourself.

I actually specifically did not say, "there are no innocent civilians in Palestine". Maybe if you read what I wrote you will see that.

I also make the distinction between Palestinians being "innocent" (they aren't) and deserving to be destroyed (they don't).

And although you may not think every Israeli is evil and must be destroyed, that is exactly what their enemy thinks. You seem to innocently forget that...

do you believe for example on this planet there is no enemy that want the USA dead and americans dont know about them ?