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Israel/Palestine thread Israel/Palestine thread

10-25-2023 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caseIIclosed
This is an absurd claim that really makes no sense at all.
If not for evangelicals our aid to israel would be significantly lower

If not for the iron dome there would be no Israel

Without US money there would be no iron dome


My statement was no ludicrous
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10-25-2023 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
I agree with the bolded and would love that to be applied to the US/Mexico border.
We allow many immigrants and many refugees so not sure what you mean
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10-25-2023 , 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
A bit over 2000 Palestinians held without charges iirc. And Israel doesn't consider them military. If they did, they would be prisoners of war and afforded rights they aren't given. They are just held. No charges. No lawyers. No trial. No sentence. Sometimes used to trade.
It sounds like you agree with the majority of young Americans and Muslims of all ages that Hamas actions are justifiable and acceptable.
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10-25-2023 , 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunyain
The bloodshed is the actual goal. We have 20 years of empirical data that Hamas doesn't care about Palestinian lives at all, and purposefully puts them in harms end to achieve political ends. What is so difficult to understand?

Like I have said before, it is a big mistake for WEIRD westerners to assume other people have the same moral principles and concerns they have. They don't.

Honestly, I think genuine concern for the well-being of other people's children is a luxury belief, and in a real hot war where their own children's lives were at risk, most Westerners would get over those concerns very quick.

That is why we shouldn't give in to the far left's vision of us devolving into petty, tribal, zero-sum game thinking. We will lose so much if we do. We aren't perfect, but we actually stand for something different (hopefully better). And we need to do better to resist the far left trying to take it all away.
Hamas cares about the people it owns about as much a LBJ cared about the people he sent to Vietnam. "Leaders" do what it takes to stay in power. Simple as that. If circumstances make it so peace is their best way to stay in power, you can thank the circumstances, not the political leaders.
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10-25-2023 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunyain
It sounds like you agree with the majority of young Americans and Muslims of all ages that Hamas actions are justifiable and acceptable.
No. I don't think murder it's justifiable for either side because there are hostages. Doesn't mean there aren't hostages.
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10-25-2023 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
Israel has thousands of hostages tho? Does that bother you or nah
Are these people in prison who were charged with crimes or something else?
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10-25-2023 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
If not for evangelicals our aid to israel would be significantly lower

If not for the iron dome there would be no Israel

Without US money there would be no iron dome


My statement was no ludicrous
These are just a series of lies. Not sure what else to tell you.
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10-25-2023 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caseIIclosed
Are these people in prison who were charged with crimes or something else?
Israel has about 2000 Palestinians held without charges in indefinite detention.
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10-25-2023 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Israel has about 2000 Palestinians held without charges in indefinite detention.
How many of them are babies and young children?
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10-25-2023 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caseIIclosed
These are just a series of lies. Not sure what else to tell you.

If you want to deny the truth then you do you
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10-25-2023 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
You’re right. 100% right. Zelensky isn’t a Nazi , he’s a Nazi commander. He has direct control over a Nazi brigade , this isn’t even debatable , it’s a fact.


Sorry I'm not aware on any of this. What's all this?
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10-25-2023 , 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
We allow many immigrants and many refugees so not sure what you mean
If you're going to pretend to not understand this is pretty silly.

You said poor people should be allowed to cross borders, not "many" poor people. A very small percentage of poor people arriving at the border are being allowed in. Is that percentage what you're talking about for Egypt at the Rafah crossing?
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10-25-2023 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
If you want to deny the truth then you do you
Did you actually mean Jimmy Carter (Camp David Accords) as the Evangelical in your story?
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10-25-2023 , 10:49 AM
Hamas rockets could not destroy Israel anyway. The Iron Dome has actually saved more Palestinians than Israelis because 10 to 1 is more or less Israeli policy.
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10-25-2023 , 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Israel has about 2000 Palestinians held without charges in indefinite detention.
at the current exchange rate that's only good for 2 back. /s

Yes both sides suck.

Last edited by washoe; 10-25-2023 at 11:05 AM.
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10-25-2023 , 11:00 AM
Israel has always made exchanges of prisoners and is extortable. both sides know this. maybe that's why they keep them.
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10-25-2023 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caseIIclosed
It's horrific stuff. I cannot imagine still holding onto a hostage while all of this is happening. To think that there are people in Hamas who could slow the bloodshed but they refuse for reasons I cannot begin to understand.
The way things are is neither side is doing all they can to avoid bloodshed and both sides think deaths of the other side’s civilians are acceptable means to an end.
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10-25-2023 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caseIIclosed
Are these people in prison who were charged with crimes or something else?
What difference does that make?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki
Sorry I'm not aware on any of this. What's all this?
Azov brigade , banned by Facebook for being Nazis, is a brigade of Nazis in Ukraine. They use the old Ukraine Nazi flag and are openly supported the president.

Zelensky is not a Nazi, but he is a Nazi commander
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10-25-2023 , 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Hamas rockets could not destroy Israel anyway. The Iron Dome has actually saved more Palestinians than Israelis because 10 to 1 is more or less Israeli policy.
I think this is something that a lot of people cant wrap their hand around. American support and aid to Israel is the single biggest factor that is keeping the Arab/Muslim death tolls so low. The Arabs/Muslims have shown through their rhetoric they are willing to undertake a nihilistic fight to the death. Maybe they are bluffing, but at some point when someone tells you what they want, you have to take them at face value.

The Arabs/Muslims will of course win, because it is 1 billion versus 9 million. But those 9 million Israeli Jews are going to take 10s of millions if not hundreds of millions of Muslims with them. And US support of Israel right now is probably the biggest deterrent to stop that from happening.
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10-25-2023 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
What difference does that make?



Azov brigade , banned by Facebook for being Nazis, is a brigade of Nazis in Ukraine. They use the old Ukraine Nazi flag and are openly supported the president.

Zelensky is not a Nazi, but he is a Nazi commander

The regiment's size was estimated to be around 2,500 combatants in 2017,[3] and around 900 in 2022.[22] Most of the unit's members are Russian speakers from Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine.


In January 2023, Meta decided that Azov should not be regarded as a "dangerous organization", meaning that Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp users may publish content about the Azov Regiment and its members without censorship.[108]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade

Just been trying to get a sense of it. So probably fewer than 900 dudes.

I mean I guess if China invaded the USA and the Proud Boys were part of the defence, it would be about the same. Weird spot.

I think the leap to calling the Jewish President a "nazi commander" is a stretch. Existential threat creates strange edge cases.
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10-25-2023 , 11:20 AM
I will say it is a useful exercise to see what the leaders of various nations are saying about this and where they stand. It lends a lot of moral clarity to the situation.

Do you want to be aligned morally with the US, France, Britain or Iran, Syria, and Russia?

Dont get me wrong. I am extremely disappointed in how the free world has embraced nihilistic, destructive far left ideology; and I do believe it is an existential danger to everything the Western world has built the last few hundred years.. But if I had to choose between them and aligning myself with Russia/Iran it is still a pretty easy decision.
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10-25-2023 , 11:57 AM
Why?

"Israeli government welcomes Azov Battalion leader as honored guest"

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article...honored-guest/
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10-25-2023 , 11:58 AM
Wrong thread guys. I’m just saying Nazi commander is 100% accurate. Zelensky could break it up but he chooses not to
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10-25-2023 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
What difference does that make?
They had criminal charges and were being held for that then it's very different than if Israeli forces picked them up off the street to use for leverage.
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10-25-2023 , 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
Wrong thread guys.
.
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