sorry this is not true. there were calls for an unconditional ceasefire from the left before the oct 7 bodies were cold

"we are on the side of peace"

The stronger nation should not be forced to fight with one hand tied behind it's back. The reality is the weaker nation should not attack the stronger nation. Israels only responsibility is wiping out Hamas and making sure there can never be a Oct 7th like attack again. Israel already takes precautions to save civilian lives. They are not gonna put their soldiers in harms way to save civilian lives. Hamas is the one who should be blamed for civilian deaths.

this is the standard-bearer of the left in my country



show me the part about hunting down the perpetrators and returning the hostages

Yes, there is fringe antisemitism out there that had no care for the hostages, but the vast majority would've supported even just counterterror surgical strikes, let alone a intel-based ground invasion and the protests would've been the same firing that opposed and forgot about Cast Lead.

I'm just saying that these people are too cowardly to admit this is what they really believe.

i think that is true for most normal left leaning people, but that is absolutely not what the organised left in the UK was saying, i dont know about other countries but i expect it was the same

these people on the whole think the jews deserved it for what they have done in palestine. that is not me sensationalising, it is in fact what they think

Maybe. Americans are far more conservative and less antisemitic than Europeans, generally speaking, of course.

Like, again, the American protester is loud, but most of it is noise. No one of significance is getting voted out for granting Israel unconditional immunity. Come November, it'll be the same ol' domestic issues that guide the election. Israeli opposition is a fringe element of the culture wars here. It doesn't move the needle.

i dont disagree with that assessment at all

It both eliminates and creates. I think many of the "innocent" civilians are helping Hamas. Also, Many of the children killed were destined to be Hamas fighters. No matter what Israel does there will be an endless supply of terrorists. These people know of no other way of life. It's the industry of the Middle East.

Israel does a lot more murder and rape than Hamas could even dream

The death toll is about 34-35,000 according to the Gaza Health Ministry, whose numbers are used by everyone from the Israeli government to the UN because they're considered the most reliable estimate. No one besides the most absolute winguts seriously disputes that the population is mostly women and children.

I understand the spiraling body count makes you feel uncomfortable, but doing holocaust denial before the massacres have even stopped is a yicky look.

the mandated term is that its a genocidal look

I dgaf about national flags - they're for the terminally weak-minded.

So what you and Dunyan are saying is that it's not because of hating Jews. I guess you just made a few people's **** lists. Unless maybe it really is just about pledging allegiance.

There are capital markets, starbucks, mcdonald and so on in Hanoi.

Is that a loss? what do you think the war was about?

This must be one of the most grotesque lies believed by the left. That people emigrate from Nigeria today because of what colonizers did 60 years ago, and similar situations. Millions out of venezuela. JFC how much do you need to lie to yourself to believe there is any western responsibility in poor countries being poor today ? there is no country that is poorer today than it would have been if we never interacted with it.

Nah just suspended unfortunately.

Many, otherwise there would have been strong movements from the left against hamas in 2023, 2022, 2021 and so on. Adn today they would be saying "free palestine from Israel and Hamas oppression" if they had a shred of decency.

There is no universe where you don't decry hamas as the complete monsters they are every single time you talk about palestine if you don't actually support hamas. Even while criticizing israel as much as you like.

I agree. I think national anthems and pledge of allegiance is kind of culty. That being said, if bad actors are replacing the existing flag I have to cheer on the good guy's.

35-40k including hamas members and simpatizers and enablers and adolescent children with guns and so on.

In the "kids" they count the armed 16y old. The 16y girl who heals wounded hamas personell in the hamas tunnels. The wife of the hamas member who cooks for the "resistance fighters". Anyone who helps hamas in any capacity *is an enemy combatant* and/or a material supporter of terrorism which makes him a fair target. Even if female or 16y old.

So how many of the casualties are people who are trapped there, hate hamas, don't help hamas, and are just innocent victims? some. 10k? 15k? 20k? maybe. And each and every one of them is dead esclusively because of... Hamas obviously anyway.

It sounds like they are being released from jail and not charged and only suspended from school. No wonder they think they can continue their reign of terror. Our government needs to get brutal like the Israelis. I'm shocked Americans are allowing this to happen.

So, leave?

it was about control of people and resources. the Vietnamese now have far more control of their own resources and far more freedom than they did under the French. they won.

Israel isn't brutal, it's actually too much motivated by humanitarian reasons (because it risks losing american support given the administration is democrat), which for ex is why rafah hasn't been invaded yet.

Western countries just need to apply the law, which in most cases would allow to try many of those students as material supporters of terrorism (or equivalent charges in other countries). Then we use our superior, civilized system of the rule of the law to verify if the charges are appropriate, to determine guilt (or lack thereof) and to punish to the maximum, possible, LEGAL extent each and every one of those who committed serious crimes against society (such as supporting terrorism materially).

We can fix everything within our system which is really good, no need to give up our moral, intellectual, cultural superiority over countries with no rule of law and no rights. But we need political will to actually apply the rules as intended.