By that rationale any ex pat or migrant has an outrageous sense of entitlement. You're being inconsistent. You want to abolish borders which implies anyone can go to live anywhere yet when it's for Jews it's suddenly wrong?
Whaddya mean people already there? There were always Jews in Palestine long before Israel, again with the inconsistency.

Why shouldn't there be a homeland in South Africa for Europeans considering they fought for it?

Homelands aren't fictional, I'm in mine right now as I post this. This is just weird college campus bullshit.

It's irrelevant the claims some make re ancestral homelands, as such claims don't nullify Israel's right to exist just cuz you personally disagree and again there were Jews in Palestine for thousands of years. And even if ancetral claims have no merit, it still doesn't nullify Israel's right to exist. They fought for it and won it, just like many other countries, the end.

Now the libs are endorsing wars of conquest.

Sadly for the Palestinians there will never be a Palestinian state. There could have been but they have made too many poor decisions. There clearly will not be a one state solution. There are too many nutty settlers and too many Jews who could never trust living next to a Palestinian. There may be a little ethno cleansing going on but there certainly is no genocide happening.

I'm not talking about borders. I'm talking about tracts of land where people already live. Whether you call this South Africa or Zimbabwe or some mixture of the two is up to you.

I'm also not talking about denying people the right to live where they want. That is never an issue for me, quite the contrary.

You said you wanted to abolish borders, so by your own rationale, can't be bitching about people wanting to live in Israel as their home, regardless of where they're originally from. Jews always lived in Palestine so again what do you mean? Palestinians living there had more status than Jewish Palestinians?

Conquest? It was under British mandate at the time. By your rationale our war of independence was a war of conquest as was yours.

Abolishing borders now, all at once? No of course not. But it's something that the world needs to move towards, starting with the larger countries with a surplus of free land of course.

Someone moving from Europe to another part of the world is 100% fine. Many people moving with the aim of achieving a majority to impose their own laws and culture on people already there isn't fine, and neither is achieving it through force ldo.

In this context it's just idiotic to call UK and Spain monarchies. Like, duh, they have royalty, but they both score higher on democracy indices than the US. Just idiotic or totally dishonest. Not going to look at the rest of your post after that idiocy/dishonesty.

Are posts being deleted? Speaking of idiocy.

You complain about being asked to be held to a higher standard than The Houthi, Hamas, or Saudi Arabia. You think Israel should be held to the standard of just being better than North Korea?

I've explained why Arab countries aren't protested by students/etc the West (though they are invaded by the West - would you like the USA to treat Israel like it treats Iraq or Syria?) and no one has countered my explanation. Neither rafiki nor Bill Haywood's reasons explain things.

Tell me your consistent explanation for why:

South Africa was protested
Saudia Arabia isn't
Israel is

There is. It's called South Africa and plenty of Euro descended Sith Ifrikans consider Sith Ifrika their home and indeed live there. They simply don;'t rule it as an apartheid state any more but it's still their bloody home, considering they were born, raised and live. Like micro, you're conflating a country with its ruling system.

Ofc they were. but it's not the 1700s anymore.

Who precisely did the Irish conquer in our war of independence?

I said

As far as why people argue about it on 2p2, it's because there are two sides. A thread will die if there aren't two sides. I started a thread about women's rights in Islamic countries in 2012 and it had a fair number of posts, but it died out in 3 days.

You're confusing living or having a homeland with a government. Of course white South Africans should be able to live there just like Jews should be able to live in Israel.

You might want to claim everyplace with 0 education as your homeland from a cultural standpoint. They are your intellectual ancestors. But that doesn't make ya'll the same.

[quote[It's irrelevant the claims some make re ancestral homelands, as such claims don't nullify Israel's right to exist just cuz you personally disagree and again there were Jews in Palestine for thousands of years. And even if ancetral claims have no merit, it still doesn't nullify Israel's right to exist. They fought for it and won it, just like many other countries, the end.[/quote]

Non of this is relevant. Israel exists...just like Saudi Arabia, Iran the US or North Korea. The issue is how they should act.

No, the ancient 'right of conquest' has not been recognised in international law since 1945, for obvious reasons. Israel's right to exist depends on the UN Partition Plan of 1947 and Israel's recognition by the UN two years later (though the Israelis hadn't actually complied with the 1947 borders and had taken more land than they were supposed to have -- they then took a whole lot more in 1967, but the UN has never considered this legitimate).

The number of Jews remaining in Palestine up to 1900 was quite small. The only Jewish member of the British Cabinet in 1917, Edwin Montagu (Secretary of State for India), strongly opposed the Balfour Declaration that year, claiming that it was antisemitic in motivation (it sought to appeal to 'Jewish influence' in Moscow and Washington, particularly a couple of known Jewish advisers to Woodrow Wilson) and that it would lead to a disastrous resurgence in antisemitism around the world. He wasn't wrong, but Hitler's crimes made the establishment of Israel inevitable by 1947.

And although I do think human rights in Islamic countries fine to talk about in and of itself and I always thought Palestinians should be free in one united state or in a separate free and viable state, for sure I used to resent the constant attacks on Israel from Western Gentiles and sometimes still do a bit, but



It's really just not ok anymore to be anything other than outraged at Israel if you're paying attention. As bad as anything in the past has been, this is insane. And other than I guess kelhus, shlitz, luciom and mongodig who all just either say kill them all or shrug, they have it coming, everyone knows it's too much killing - maybe even mets.

Humans in Ireland go back at least 33000 years and the first settlement was probably about 13000 years ago. Imagine how many different peoples have been there, where they are now, how dispersed all the ancestry is and how much conquering there has been.

This is just people who have some recent ancestry, but there are 30 million Americans who describe themselves as at least part Irish. The population of both Irelands together is about 7 million people.

Whoever lived there before

Not interested in either your argumentum ad hominem dribble or your sudden attached caveats. I'm going by what you say. Be more coherent in future if you don't want your arguments counter pointed.

I understand you probably hate the English since you're Irish, but that's no reason to be an idiot about it.