Israel/Palestine thread - Page 1000 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

this post is racist. How do I discuss this with the thread without getting a timeout?

Its racist for the brown people to be terrorists but the white people killing more people in worse ways are not held to the same standard.

for the ignorant

Its racist for the indigenous people to be terrorists but the colonizers killing more people in worse ways are not held to the same standard

I have to think Hamas being an internationally recognized terrorist organization isn't too contentious. A coalition of 35 countries in just the Americas, call them terrorists. In Europe you have ample countries doing the same. Also Japan, Australia, etc

I'm not really being outrageous with this one.

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Today , 11:29 AM

#24977

PointlessWords

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 4,428

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossnerd

PW, you are allowed to argue that the terrorist designation is racist, while we remember that Rafiki did not coin that term.

ok but why is he using it? he did use the word, and type it out, unless someone else did that for him

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Today , 11:31 AM

#24978

PointlessWords

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 4,428

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafiki

only if you do the same for israel.

if you dont, well, thats racism. and thats exactly what I asked about

if it is determined that rafiki is being racist by calling Palestinians terrorists but refusing to call Israelis terrorists, what happens?

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Today , 11:36 AM

#24979

rafiki

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 40,277

I think we have to be ok with the idea that an internationally recognized terrorist organization just got caught inflating women/children death toll figures by nearly 50%, as discussed by the UN.

This allows for the other side of the coin, which are things like accusations of war crimes against a UN member country like Israel (with the same sort of data driven evidence based approaches).

These forms of discussion are the same. We have to be comfortable with both. And I think that's where we are getting to.

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Today , 11:37 AM

#24980

Crossnerd

quite smart as well

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 39,618

PW, I'm not here to moderate whether a poster is racist- I'm here to moderate whether they make racist posts. Hamas being designated a terrorist organization is a mainstream idea. If you want to argue why that designation is racist from a societal point of view, you are free to do so, as well as argue that the Israeli government has also earned that designation. But I will not be moderating thought crimes.

This thread isn't meant to debate the character of other posters; its to debate the current events and how they affect our world.

If you have questions, such as the ones you've been posting here in the thread, I will try to answer them to the best of my ability, but I'd like to ask you again to please utilize private messages so as not to derail this thread. Thank you.

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Today , 11:44 AM

#24981

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,997

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafiki

ok my food isn't going to burn, I can type something up.

I believe Israel has essentially lost the first phase of this war. Not in the way Victor would think though. If you want to measure damage done to the enemy, the IDF outperformed everyone's wildest expectations. They destroyed 18 Hamas battalions (leaving maybe 6), and lost in the low hundreds doing so. Everyone figured it would take thousands of IDF dead to achieve that goal. The problem is that destroying 18 Hamas battalions isn't winning the war.

As of right now, Sinwar is said to believe he's won. That's coming right from people who spend time with him. And this is because of the massive swing in global public opinion (on the conflict) that swung the hardest when the 7 aid workers were killed. The threats the USA made at that point were ones Bibi couldn't come back from. As miserably as he performed before Oct 7, he's truly been awful since.

While Israel fought a first level thinking military campaign, they completely lost the bigger picture war. The media and diplomatic war, the responsibility to provide better aid, taking even more extreme steps to save lives (to be clear no other country does, but they have no choice). And it's put them right here today in a position where they have very little leverage.

Hamas has all the hostage leverage. That's in part due to the way the hostage families have behaved (which is entirely understandable), but also Israel's "allies". Obviously the election year aspect has been extremely difficult, and if Sinwar timed it with that, he's even more brilliant than people think. The Israeli hostage negotiation team today was sent with the orders to concede to far greater demands. So we could actually see a very lopsided deal soon enough.

So what's next? An election in Israel before the Fall is almost assured. But I also think Israel is going to make a very big bet on Trump. Unlike PointlessWords, I do know my regional history. When the Brits left in May of 1948, that was the countdown down to the invasion by Egypt and the others. I think similarly we can see one of a few scenarios.

1) Israel helps massively with aid (it's already happening as of today), and takes the full 3 months it takes to get everyone out of Rafah (it's said to take 2 months very minimum, so 3-4 seems more realistic. That's July-August timeframe. Then they take the pulse of the USA, the election, and maybe they hit Rafah then.

or

2) They bet it all on Trump. Once he's won, they run the campaign that want to run, which would be part 2 of the war. By then Bibi is definitely gone. I can't say what the campaign looks like without knowing who wins the election.

I think that will take us through the Summer. Hezbollah will probably be the ones who decide what happens to the North. So I won't try to guess timing there.

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Today , 11:44 AM

#24982

Victor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 72,812

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafiki

I think we have to be ok with the idea that an internationally recognized terrorist organization just got caught inflating women/children death toll figures by nearly 50%, as discussed by the UN.

This allows for the other side of the coin, which are things like accusations of war crimes against a UN member country like Israel (with the same sort of data driven evidence based approaches).

These forms of discussion are the same. We have to be comfortable with both. And I think that's where we are getting to.

bolded is quite simply a lie.

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