Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Israel/Palestine thread Israel/Palestine thread

Today , 02:26 PM
Highly likely to be the UK PM in a few weeks

Quote:
Keir Starmer expected to push for Palestinian state in Labour manifesto

Exclusive: Leader set to make commitment in move to shore up support from party’s core support on the left
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...bour-manifesto
Israel/Palestine thread Quote
Today , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki
So we can land on a source that satisfies everyone (European Council on Foreign Relations)

https://ecfr.eu/publication/beyond-p...a-and-lebanon/

Beyond proxies: Iran’s deeper strategy in Syria and Lebanon
June 5th 2024

"To prevent this escalation, European leaders and policymakers will need a comprehensive picture of Iran’s strategies and influence in Lebanon and Syria. This paper contributes to building that picture by examining Iran’s involvement in those two countries and its implications for the wider Middle East. It explores the strategic context of Iran’s involvement, assesses Tehran’s approaches towards both friends and foes in Lebanon and Syria, and analyses recent developments as well as possible future scenarios.

The paper argues that Europeans – the European Union and its member states, but also other engaged European actors including the United Kingdom, Norway, and Switzerland – should now formulate their responses to Iran’s role in the Levant around three goals: 1) in the immediate-term, prevent further escalation in Lebanon and Syria and a wider war in the Middle East; 2) in the medium-term, increase conditional support for actors in both countries, necessarily including those allied with Iran, to advance local stabilisation goals; and 3) over the longer-term, intensify European support for structural reform in Lebanon and Syria that can slowly dilute Iran’s dominance.
"



The paper is DENSE. But if someone wants to really understand what's happening here with Hezbollah among others, read it. It's not written by sinister Jews or anything, one of the authors is Hamidreza Azizi.
In the current politics of the region, from a Western view, Israel is a stabilising force (up to a point, though Israel has been understandably provoked into problematic actions lately) and Iran is the destabilising force. There's a reason why even Saudi Arabia has become an informal ally of Israel against the strategic enemy Iran, while Egypt and Jordan remain formal (if presently somewhat annoyed) allies. Palestinian Sunni groups supping with the predatory Shia mullahs of Iran may have forgotten to bring the proverbially necessary long spoon.
Israel/Palestine thread Quote
Today , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalfrezi
More proof that people lose their minds when they start believing that genetics should play a determining factor in global events.
It's not a normative should, it's a description of how things are
Israel/Palestine thread Quote
Today , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 On Red
In the current politics of the region, from a Western view, Israel is a stabilising force (up to a point, though Israel has been understandably provoked into problematic actions lately) and Iran is the destabilising force. There's a reason why even Saudi Arabia has become an informal ally of Israel against the strategic enemy Iran, while Egypt and Jordan remain formal (if presently somewhat annoyed) allies. Palestinian Sunni groups supping with the predatory Shia mullahs of Iran may have forgotten to bring the proverbially necessary long spoon.
Look at the regimes Iran touches, and imagine wanting to be a part of that "Axis"

Lebanon is a failed state, and Hezbollah ruins everything it touches
Assad's murderous regime in Syria (if you want to talk genocide)
The Houthis who want death to everyone
Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq and those guys, who are about as radical as they get

That's just a who's who list of dudes you want no part of, all the way to Khomeini, whose own people admonish as he black bags them.


It's not ambiguous, those groups only create poverty, ruin, and war. There's no upside. The progressive Islamic countries are leaps and bounds more accepting, prosperous, welcoming, etc.
Israel/Palestine thread Quote
Today , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Highly likely to be the UK PM in a few weeks


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...bour-manifesto
Worth doing, I think. You can't let the Israeli right just keep getting madder and madder in a vacuum and imagining themselves biblical overlords -- they've lately taken to citing the Jews' destruction of the Amalekites, which is not a good sign. The difficult aspect is that there's no worthwhile Palestinian leadership and certainly no Palestinian Mandela in whom faith can be placed (not that the ANC's been up to much since Mandela left the scene). But international recognition of Palestine may budge things a bit.
Israel/Palestine thread Quote
Today , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki
Look at the regimes Iran touches, and imagine wanting to be a part of that "Axis"

Lebanon is a failed state, and Hezbollah ruins everything it touches
Assad's murderous regime in Syria (if you want to talk genocide)
The Houthis who want death to everyone
Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq and those guys, who are about as radical as they get

That's just a who's who list of dudes you want no part of, all the way to Khomeini, whose own people admonish as he black bags them.


It's not ambiguous, those groups only create poverty, ruin, and war. There's no upside. The progressive Islamic countries are leaps and bounds more accepting, prosperous, welcoming, etc.
Wouldn't disagree with that at all.
Israel/Palestine thread Quote
Today , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalfrezi
No. Hamas are a horrible organisation. As is the Israeli government. If you could decapitate both while leaving both populations unharmed it would be fantastic.

I'd like to be able to say that Israelis deserve better than Bibi's gangsters but as the overwhelming majority of them seem to be in favour of more and more bloodletting, I can't. It's a nation of full on deplorables.
Then Palestine must also be a nation of deplorables for supporting Hamas and its never ending attacks on Israel.
Israel/Palestine thread Quote
Today , 03:02 PM
Dunyain, please take a timeout from this thread as well until 12:00 AM Eastern Time. Thank you.
Israel/Palestine thread Quote
Today , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Then Palestine must also be a nation of deplorables for supporting Hamas and its never ending attacks on Israel.
They haven’t had the luxury of regular elections, so that’s purely speculation on your part.
Israel/Palestine thread Quote
Today , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki
Look at the regimes Iran touches, and imagine wanting to be a part of that "Axis"

Lebanon is a failed state, and Hezbollah ruins everything it touches
Assad's murderous regime in Syria (if you want to talk genocide)
The Houthis who want death to everyone
Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq and those guys, who are about as radical as they get

That's just a who's who list of dudes you want no part of, all the way to Khomeini, whose own people admonish as he black bags them.


It's not ambiguous, those groups only create poverty, ruin, and war. There's no upside. The progressive Islamic countries are leaps and bounds more accepting, prosperous, welcoming, etc.
And Putin obviously loves Iran
Israel/Palestine thread Quote

      
m