Israel/Palestine thread - Page 1123 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I'd only just begun reading up on the recruitment and training camps for Hamas that do 15-21 year olds. I'll be honest I didn't know the extent of the roles the 15-16-17 year olds played. There have been some mind blowing pieces I've been reading. I'll post some tomorrow.

I just don't know what to do with that fact. Putting an weapon in a 16 year old's hands is just more than I can conceive.

And btw the Israeli settler side is BAD too. I get just as many nightmares from that issue.

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Today , 01:53 AM

#28052

jbouton

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Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,296

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Originally Posted by rafiki

J, Israel has always been in existential danger. At no time has it not. You pick an era, it was in danger. This seven front war is a war of survival. Israel intelligence has known for some time, they just picked the wrong front to be the one to strike at them the way Hamas did.

But you know who else has always been in existential danger? Jews. Full stop, historically that's our story. We got together in this place after the 40's because of the last attempt to be rid of us. A partition plan with very fair sq km's relative to head count was devised. When looking at the amount of land the Jews abandoned in their homes in Iraq, Iran, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc, this split was more than fair when we consider how things like India/Pakistan were divided. And still even more than fair when we consider how much of the earth Muslims self-determine.

When you look at X, all everyone wants is self-determination for the Palestinians. But the Jews self-determining is ethno-something. You can't make sense of it, how Japan can be Japan, but how Israel cannot. How Gaza should be Gaza, but Israel cannot. The "rules" don't make sense side by side because people want two sets of them.

And btw the Vietnam thing, it's an Iran thing. That region flows through Iranian influence. They prop up Assad, The Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, the militias in Iraq, keep going down the list looking for regimes that destabilize and move economies backwards and turn states into failed ones. This is a war of ideas, religion, and ideologies. Israel reps western values, Iran and Hamas are having none of that.

I understand this yes and sympathize with it. I'm thinking of a bigger thing though. That Israel's existence in its current form I think heavily relies on US political support.

I see a trap building in that regard.

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Today , 02:11 AM

#28053

Bluegrassplayer

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Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 39,137

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Originally Posted by grizy

Nobody is going to help Israel with a long term solution.

I don't think this is true and if anything I think we've seen very much the opposite. The problem is that nobody is going to help Israel with Israel's long term solution. Israel needs to be willing to compromise.

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Nobody is going to stop sending aid to Gaza enriching Hamas. Nobody is going to stop Iran from arming Hamas. And nobody is going to help with governing (occupying if you want) Gaza.

I think the point that no one is going to stop Iran and nobody is going to help with governing (or occupying) are false largely because of the first sentence: "Nobody is going to stop sending aid to Gaza enriching Hamas."

Countries do not want to invest into a system that is going to attack Israel again, resulting in their investment being blown up again and thereby requiring even further investments. The incentives are there, and some countries recognize that this kind of destabilization is not good; there are countries willing to help, Israel needs to figure out how they can work together.

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Today , 02:45 AM

#28054

Bluegrassplayer

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https://abcnews.go.com/International...y?id=110989116

China agreeing and even Russia soft agreeing is pretty big.

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Today , 02:50 AM

#28055

jalfrezi

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 13,409

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Originally Posted by Luciom

I don't understand, you have a poll with 85% not trusting Bibi (not sure if that's the same as disapproval but let's pretend it is), you should be happy right?

The implication is that they don’t trust Bibi because they think he’s not extreme enough lol.

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Today , 02:56 AM

#28056

jalfrezi

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Originally Posted by chillrob

Most people in the world support any violence against Jews. Nothing new to see here.

The 153 weren’t “people in the world”. They were UN delegates.

And I don’t agree that a majority of people in the world support violence against Jewish people, though I don’t know how we can prove this one way or the other.

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Today , 03:13 AM

#28057

chillrob

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Originally Posted by rafiki

I'd only just begun reading up on the recruitment and training camps for Hamas that do 15-21 year olds. I'll be honest I didn't know the extent of the roles the 15-16-17 year olds played. There have been some mind blowing pieces I've been reading. I'll post some tomorrow.

I just don't know what to do with that fact. Putting an weapon in a 16 year old's hands is just more than I can conceive.

And btw the Israeli settler side is BAD too. I get just as many nightmares from that issue.

Don't know why this should be so inconceivable. Do you think most militaries in history have only recruited 18+? Even today 17s can join the US military with parental approval. I just saw some footage of the 80th anniversary of D-day memorials. The reason any of those guys are still alive is because many were underage when they joined.
One man interviewed said he joined at the age of 15 by lying about his age. Not many 15s can pass for 18; I'm going to guess his recruiters weren't trying very hard to keep out underage applicants.