Sounds like the whole story was bunk, but "the UN has halved the numbers" never made sense to just say like that because it was only some of the numbers changing. But, now I think it makes sense that it's become a talking point and what has been said in this thread is just the way it got reported and repeated inside an information bubble.

How big? Big as in, you'd reconsider your support for the IDF?

I don't see why.

And these counts are all based on Hamas' count. If you don't want to believe Hamas, ok, but don't quote any of these numbers.

I haven't noticed any other attempt to come up with a different estimate, but I may have just missed it. And, I do expect there are other estimates out there. Surely US and Israeli intelligence (probably others) have been tracking bombings and population movements and have estimates using different methods, but they don't seem to be publishing them.

ima put in on half speed and transcribe

uhhh, its not quite the case no, uhhmm. what I can tell you is this: the overall number of fatalities thats been tallied by the Ministry of Health in Gaza which is our counterpart on dealing with the uhh the death tolls, that number remains unchanged and its at more than 35k people since the uhh since october 7th. whats changed is the Minstry of Health in Gaza has updated the break down of fatalities for whom full details have been documented. so what they recently published was that they uhh gave figures for 24,686 out of 34,622 overall fatalities reported out of Gaza and those are the ones for whom full details have been documented in other words people who have been fully identified. out of those then out that smaller number that subset of identified bodies, you have 7797 children 4959 women 1924 elderly and 10006 men. and the minstory of health says that the documentation process of fully identifying details of casualties is ongoing and meanwhile as you can see if you can do the math that theres about another 10k+ whos bodies still have to be fully identified so then the deatils of those which of those are children which of those are women that will be reestablished once the full identification process is complete. we, our teams in Gaza arent able to independently verify these figures given the situation on the ground with combat the sheer number of fatalities and so we cite the Ministry of Health for these numbers.

unfortunately we have the sad experience of coordinating with the MOH on casualty figure every few years for uh large mass casualty incidents in Gaza and in past times their figutres have proven to be genuinely pretty accurate.

Tameem said that, so sure, don't listen to Tameem, but the clip posted was the UN representative explaining the numbers that rafiki keeps talking about.

I've read about the numbers and how they were adjusted and why. No numbers released say anybody is soldiers. So you believe Israel when they say they took out 20 batallions?

I'm agreeing we really don't know the numbers. If hamas is hiding the identity of anybody who died, do you reckon it would be children, women, or hamas?

its hard to believe IDF has taken out 20 battalions considering how many medivac helicopters and body bags and red triangles keep popping up.

once again, it is a testament to the spirt and fairness of the supposed terrorists that they track these medivacs and never shoot them.

I'm skeptical that Hamas ever had anything like 20 or 30 of something that could be reasonably described as a battalion. A battalion in the US Army has about 1000 soldiers and that's about the total number of Hamas militants who participated on 10/7. They had like 30 battalions and only sent 1? Not very credible imo. I don't think they could ever have put much more than that on the field with any kind of heavy arms. Nothing any real army in the world would call a battalion.

Doesn't mean they don't have bands of guerrilla fighters at platoon or maybe company strength that can fight, but pretending they were or are an army is something that people do because they want propaganda that either props up their morale or is used to justify collateral damage.

They seem to just report people and not whether or not they are Hamas fighters. They seem a plausibly reliable source based on what the UN has said about their numbers being accurate in the past. But, just based on the numbers we approximately do know about number of people who lived in Gaza, number of people who made it out of Northern Gaza, number and size of bombs dropped, and number of buildings destroyed, it seems very unlikely that the numbers of actual dead are lower than the 30-40k numbers.

100% they don’t have battalions lmao

So guerilla fighters shot the rockets at al sharif pw?

I dont think the 2 young female patients he talks about are included in the death toll



this guy sounds pretty white so he should be trusted

I dunno, hes kinda swarthy and not the good kind. proly cant be trusted.

Uh, why can't guerrilla fighters fire rockets?

These are Hamas rockets. They aren't shooting up ICBMs.

the Resistance is formed as a regular military. similar to the North Viet Cong.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...d-central-gaza

The Viet Cong were in the South. In the North they had the NVA, which had Soviet T-72 tanks, MIG-21s and about 300000 troops.

they are like the Viet Cong among others.

like you said, they are guerilla fighters but they are part of a legitimate military formation. this isn ISIS doing war crimes or random people running around and shooting weapons. they are highly trained and disciplined and effective. presumably Israel will eventually degrade their abilities but it hasnt happened yet in any way.

ok vic, they are not highly trained. they are marketed as if they were, but they arent. These groups dont have lots of ammo to train soldiers with, let alone time, location, etc.

Some of them MAYBE are highly trained. some like 1%.

the rest are given a uniform and told how to look good for photoshoots. Then they are given very basic training and sent out to conduct guerilla operations. These fighters are extremely effective but not highly trained. You dont need to be highly trained to shoot an RPG into the broadside of a tank for example.


the average soldier in china shoots like 500-2000 rounds of ammo during their enlistment. They are not highly trained even though people act like they are. Hamas has even worse training.

Id be surprised if hamas didnt do some warcrimes. Like between oct 7 and the hostages they have, cmon.

Wouldn't be surprised? Taking hostages at a festival isn't a war crime?

Depends on who was at the concert and where it was held of course.

I spent a year living right next to the DMZ. Dont think I saw many concerts going on up there.

I mean if 500 ex Hamas guys got together to listen to music on the border around a militarized area, do you think Israel would bomb them?

mets already said Netanyahu should be tried for war crimes.

I’d rather see general agreement and acceptance that it was a genocide