How does one "demonize" a mass murderer like Rogers? Mass murder is a crime so yeah they're criminals even if they cheat justice. I'm personally not interested in what makes malignant narcissists tick.

Amazingly, the lonely shy women out there don’t form toxic online communities and commit mass shootings.

There is certainly a thing where many people do not think you should question, clear up, address, or defend any comments leveled against perceived undesirables.

If the person or group is not liked then why address the comments leveled at them.

I first saw this with sports fanatics who could not understand why I, as a George St Pierre fan, would argue against those saying blatantly wrong things, and often lies against his rival BJ Penn. I had more than one person DM me asking 'why as a GSP fan I cared to defend Penn?'


And that does perplex some. They think if the person is undesirable then truth and logic and fairness are not a prerequisite and they get confused why you (I) would try to clear up wrong statements or lies about Penn (or Rogan, or Incels, etc).

They think 'who cares' as truth is not their issue and typically only burying the person under as much stuff as possible is the goal. It is a form of canceling the person.

Jon Stewart addressed it recently in his podcast about how the 'weight of all the allegations IS the point', not the 'truthfulness'. If you can bury them with weight they become cancelled as most people will not then sift for truth and will be forced to just take sides.

it is an interesting dynamic to me, as I am more interested in the debate and honesty within it while for some the latter, is a convenience that does not really have to be there at all.

Incels are not sympathetic so the 'why try to understand them or what is driving the growth' is just not important to some and its offensive to others.

lucky for them it has only got easier for them to at least get passing company and laid.

The opposite that has happened for the men who are like them.

No but they do exist and do form communities:

www.reddit.com/r/ForeverAloneWomen

and perhaps considering their problems might also help provide insights/solutions for all the different groups facing the same underlying problem?

Juk

haha,

I had no idea such a place existed and its so interesting to read.

Already I am seeing such a clear common thread, that even with these frustrated women (for many reasons) they all seem to be warning each other that the Apps like Tinder are 'just for Hook ups!'

A nod to the fact they can find sex but not relationships via the apps. The opposite that most men say who wish the Apps made it easy for them to find hookups.

I wish you two would get your story straight.

I can't tell if you're being serious with this post. In what world are there sites where average or below average men can get free easy sex with women? Even ugly fat women. No such site exists. The market doesn't work like that. There's a well known saying - "women have sex with who they want, men have sex with who they can".

Women form communities like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/ or like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TruAskFemcels/ For women, getting intimacy is never an issue. Their issue is getting intimacy and long term relationships with the men they're attracted to (i.e. roughly that top 20% of men). The female equivalent of a male incel is a woman who gets used and discarded only for sex and grows up being bitter and resentful towards men because of that.

There's been a lot of debate on reddit about why incel subs were taken down, but blatant misandrist subs like female dating strategy are allowed to stay up and haven't even been quarantined. I don't know the answer to that question, but it appears to be a clear double standard. If sexism against women isn't allowed, nor should sexism against men.

Sounds like a potential topic for a reddit subgroup.

Seems like the same dynamic that causes internet poker to be so much harder than live. A good pro can play with a lot more fish online than live, pushing out the marginal pro. A top guy can arrange many more dates online, pushing out the marginal guys.

No, not really. They started glorifying violence, murder and rape.

I know this thread continuously returns to debating dating apps and attractiveness , perhaps in some naive belief that incels are just young men who need some advice. The reason incels are of a concern to law enforcement however, is that the ideology has come to foster mass murderers and terrorists. That doesn't mean every incel is a potential killer or rapist, it's analogous to other extremist movements which has a lot of hangarounds and vocal supporters, some radicals that to do the proselytizing and recruitment and a few individuals sufficiently removed from reality to make it dangerous.

So Incels can't do this? With say, a hooker? As they're apparently obsessed with sex?Rogers couldn't have gone to a hooker?

...Are you one of those MRA guys? Cuz your posts sounds kinda like one of those "Won't somebody please think of the MRA guys??! " spiels tbh.
Maybe it hasn't been quarantined as no "female equivalent of a male incel " has committed mass murder over her frustration?

These guys deserve no sympathy. I'm very much talking about entitled losers like Rogers. As for non criminal incels- hookers.With sleazy names like Amber, or Ginger. They'll sort em right out. Failing that go to some BBW/Fat chick fetish site. Or failing that there's always a jar of waaaarm liver.

Point being their malaise isn't poignant or sympathetic. These guys again are ultimately misogynists who don;t see women beyond sexual relief. It's utterly correct to be absolutely dismissive of them.

That's because of the little difference we have which is nuts my friend. Men are more violent, esp in their youth cuz of this little thing called testosterone. Same reason most serial killers are male.

I've just seen a doc about social behaviour of primates and humans. A bonomo or chimpanzee male can get incredibly violent and mean just to show dominance and so can humans. An ape example would be that a male monkey is known to eat the babies alive if they are not from him, a human example was shown as what the nazies did.

Again these guys are resorting to violence for what is ultimately a trivial reason. Shockingly disproportionate violence and all. I didn't go out and commit mass murder as a youth if I didn't get laid on a night out, nor did I resent women if I struck out. Had I never have gotten laid at all I still wouldn't resort to violence.Yes I was a different person in my youth than I am today, like everyone else, but I still knew the difference between right and wrong. These guys do too. They're selfish egocentric little brats.

Of course it is selfish and dumb of them. Im trying to get behind their tjought process here and for them it could be no way out. Which is of course wrong. I'm glad you didn't believe me, and that you had that control. However that doc said a guys brain is not fully developed until the age of 25, it could be 30, I have to look that up again. And that makes them resort to ultimate violence, cuz they can't control it, their emotians. I see these events actually sadly to that there is something wrong with this world.

I think you have a lot you can contribute to this thread, and I mentioned earlier that I thought you would be a good addition to it and that you and the OP will have a good, robust discussion on this topic. You should share some of the videos of the research you have done on this topic. The gorilla stuff, though maybe none of the baby eating or Nazi things.

I don't think it's high testosterone driving this though: I'm pretty sure the vast majory are somewhere on the autistic spectrum and thus can't see things from others' perspectives nor understand why others don't agree with their own (ludicrous) perspective.

The "ForeverAlone" lot seem to be more about crippling social anxiety (or at least they were until all the incel reddits and forums got banned and a lot moved over).

This is quite an interesting Reddit to read too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate

A lot of the discussion in this thread is mirrored there, with input from all "sides".

Juk

I found the incel!

I don't think their violence is due to autism,plenty of autistic people don't engage in such crimes.

Yup that is perfectly consistent with everything I have said prior despite Trolly now lying that it was not.

As i have said, and is born out in what you link to, the main female complaint (80-90%) re Apps is they can get hookups easily but not relationships. Whereas the main male complaint (bottom 70-80%) is they cannot get any dates.

if 70-80% of all males are considered not worthy of contact or discussion or a date, that is problematic.


There are 2 different streams to this conversation.

You are, rightly focused on the hard core incel and the threat they pose. The 2nd conversation is why the pool of those who identify with Incels is growing so vastly and is there a connection to SM and the internet and changing dating trends?

As a parallel you may think it only important to look at Jan6th and the hard core, deliberate and planned violent offenders who showed up with INTENT to do harm and that is fine. But a broader discussion on how SM radicalized a ton of average Mom's and Pop's who, even if not planning violence did not shrink away from the idea of 'over throwing the Capital' and how some of them could eventually sift into even more violent groups, is also ok to examine.

This is basically a discussion on whether the Internet (SM) is acting as a 'Feeder System' were a certain percent will become more radicalized and what then are the root causes for the persons vulnerability to such radicalization that SM is playing upon?

I've been trying to dig down on your comments and don't want to assume.

You've been indicating that there are abundant easy places for sex for all men and I've questioning whether you mean paid service only, which I thought you were saying no. The above seems to be suggesting you are saying 'Prostitutes are the answer, and they are abundant'. Is that correct or are you thinking of other avenues as well?

And I am not saying Pro's would not be a good answer for many, as they could be. I am saying that for the majority of them I do not think this would fix the problem and in fact might exasperate it. Feeling 'rejected' and knowing the only way you can get it is to pay for it might satisfy the immediate urge but does not generally address the 'rejected' issue.

Interesting read. Thx.

The causes of radicalization is something I do find interesting.

I know for fact that if this were a 'marginalized group' those disdainful of this topic even being addressed, would be all in on the discussion and diving into root causes and societal factors.

This however is mostly a young white problem so you see instantly the disdain that even discussing it (on a discussion forum) gets with the idea it belongs in other forums. There is a view that we neither care nor should discuss young male (especially white) problems and they should just instead be ridiculed and jailed.

You also then get the usual suspects who entirely empty post. They don't like that OTHERS are willing to debate this topic in this thread and as such they have a singular goal to try and derail the thread thru trolling and hoping to get others to engage them in their troll attempts so it becomes about that instead. A pretty common tactic on this forum that is not allowed in others (empty posting) as it typically just leads to threads being over run by flame wars as you get competing people trying to be arbiters of what others can or should discuss.

I think taking an All or None position is short sighted.

Sure many don't engage in such crimes but that is not the question. The question is 'are more in that group prone to doing so'?

I don't have any answer on that but just saying "i don't think FB really radicalizes some Moms and Dads to Jan6th like violence... because many people are on FB and don't act out that way', is kind of missing the point.

Both can be true. 'SM can be a factor for radicalization', and 'most people won't engage in such crimes'.

They're probably more susceptible to feeling empowered to commit violence if they spend their time on misogynist echo chamber forums. I'm not trying to take an All or None approach, my point re Autism is I very much doubt there's a single factor at play here. I do know we all have a personal choice, barring actual truly psychotic mental illness. A disorder such as malignant narcissism or outright psychopathy isn't compulsive, even at its most extreme end, which is why serial killers don;t murder their victims in front of a police station.
Rogers wasn't psychotic suffering outright delusions ,he knew what he was doing was wrong.
Those who make that choice are doing so for selfish egocentric reasons. Such reasons don't deserve gravitas or attempted insight . These people aren't actually suffering in the proper sense of the word. Their malaise isn't so overbearing that they resort to paying for it, if to them it's "not an option". They chose not to rectify their situation and chose to engage in horrific acts instead, again I'm talking about offender incels.
As for the non offenders,sorry but the world has currently more pressing $hit to deal with than their not getting their leg over, as does society in general.

I'm presuming there's hook up sites and probably fetish hook up sites- fat chicks grannies etc. If lack of sex is their problem, there's ways to rectify that. I'm going by what they're bitching about and very very much within that context,yep, prostitutes are the answer. They pop their cherry,pat themselves on the back,problem solved. Rather than murder people.
I really don;t think these guys want a relationship. They simply want sex on tap from an obedient submissive female. It's why I think they're entitlled egocentric narcissists.If not being able to achieve this fantasy irl is to them rejection, then that's their problem. These people don't actually like women and certainly don;t respect them.They oughta save up and get one of those hi tech sex dolls actually because I doubt even hookers would put up with their crap.