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I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. I believe men to be the oppressed in American society.

11-18-2023 , 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherOfLoaf
Look it up. Duh. WTF?
I can’t have a discussion with Google. Thanks
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
I can’t have a discussion with Google. Thanks
You’re not asking for a discussion. You’re asking for the definition of a word. WTF is wrong with you?
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherOfLoaf
You’re not asking for a discussion. You’re asking for the definition of a word. WTF is wrong with you?
You must be new around here. Definitions tend to end up in discussion, often heated, with some posters even claiming that words don't mean things and stuff.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dunyain
Am I being an idiot, or did you post a picture of wasps when you keep talking about bees?
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by chillrob
I haven't heard any politicians talking about people being selfish by nature.
However, I have read a lot of things indicating that is true, mostly written by academics, who are not generally known for their defense of capitalism.

Could you point to any examples of people advocating for the idea of selfishness in human nature that were likely to be made in bad faith, in order to serve their own political interests?
My claim is not that politicians go around saying this.

It's that it's permeated education due to political interests. From Adam Smith through to Hayek and arguably even Dawkins, '**** economicus' is only selfish. But that's being challenged actively by a lot of modern study.

https://theconversation.com/humans-a...ogether-144145

Quote:
There has long been a general assumption that human beings are essentially selfish. We’re apparently ruthless, with strong impulses to compete against each other for resources and to accumulate power and possessions.

If we are kind to one another, it’s usually because we have ulterior motives. If we are good, it’s only because we have managed to control and transcend our innate selfishness and brutality.

This bleak view of human nature is closely associated with the science writer Richard Dawkins, whose book The Selfish Gene became popular because it fitted so well with (and helped to justify) the competitive and individualistic ethos of late 20th-century societies.

Like many others, Dawkins justifies his views with reference to the field of evolutionary psychology. Evolutionary psychology theorises that present-day human traits developed in prehistoric times, during what is termed the “environment of evolutionary adaptedness”.

Disinformation is dangerous. We fight it with facts and expertise
This is usually seen as a period of intense competition, when life was a kind of Roman gladiatorial battle in which only the traits that gave people a survival advantage were selected and all others fell by the wayside. And because people’s survival depended on access to resources – think rivers, forests and animals – there was bound to be competition and conflict between rival groups, which led to the development of traits like racism and warfare.

This seems logical. But in fact the assumption it’s based on — that prehistoric life was a desperate struggle for survival — is false.

Prehistoric abundance
It’s important to remember that in the prehistoric era, the world was very sparsely populated. So it’s likely there was an abundance of resources for hunter-gatherer groups.

According to some estimates, around 15,000 years ago, the population of Europe was only 29,000, and the population of the whole world was less than half a million. With such small population densities, it seems unlikely that prehistoric hunter-gatherer groups had to compete against each other or had any need to develop ruthlessness and competitiveness, or to go to war.

Indeed, many anthropologists now agree that war is a late development in human history, arising with the first agricultural settlements.

Contemporary evidence
There’s also significant evidence from contemporary hunter-gatherer groups who live in the same way as prehistoric humans. One of the striking things about such groups is their egalitarianism.

As the anthropologist Bruce Knauft has remarked, hunter-gatherers are characterised by “extreme political and sexual egalitarianism”. Individuals in such groups don’t accumulate their own property and possessions. They have a moral obligation to share everything. They also have methods of preserving egalitarianism by ensuring that status differences don’t arise.

The !Kung of southern Africa, for example, swap arrows before going hunting and when an animal is killed, the credit does not go to the person who fired the arrow, but to the person who the arrow belongs to. And if a person becomes too domineering or arrogant, the other members of the group ostracise them.

Typically in such groups, men have no authority over women. Women usually choose their own marriage partners, decide what work they want to do and work whenever they choose to. And if a marriage breaks down, they have custody rights over their children.

Many anthropologists agree that such egalitarian societies were normal until a few thousand years ago, when population growth led to the development of farming and a settled lifestyle.

Altruism and egalitarianism
In view of the above, there seems little reason to assume that traits such as racism, warfare and male domination should have been selected by evolution – as they would have been of little benefit to us. Individuals who behaved selfishly and ruthlessly would be less likely to survive, since they would have been ostracised from their groups.

It makes more sense then to see traits such as cooperation, egalitarianism, altruism and peacefulness as natural to human beings. These were the traits that have been prevalent in human life for tens of thousands of years. So presumably these traits are still strong in us now.

Of course, you might argue that if this is case, why do present day humans often behave so selfishly and ruthlessly? Why are these negative traits so normal in many cultures? Perhaps though these traits should be seen as the result of environmental and psychological factors.

Research has shown repeatedly that when the natural habitats of primates are disrupted, they tend to become more violent and hierarchical. So it could well be that the same thing has has happened to us, since we gave up the hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

In my book The Fall, I suggest that the end of the hunter-gatherer lifestyle and the advent of farming was connected to a psychological change that occurred in some groups of people. There was a new sense of individuality and separateness, which led a new selfishness, and ultimately to hierarchical societies, patriarchy and warfare.

At any rate, these negative traits appear to have developed so recently that it doesn’t seem feasible to explain them in adaptive or evolutionary terms. Meaning that the “good” side of our nature is much more deep-rooted than the “evil” side.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz
My claim is not that politicians go around saying this.
being challenged actively by a lot of modern study.
"Modern" moves with the zeitgeist. All study is "modern", much as all pictures of you are from when you were younger.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 07:07 AM
I didn't read your quote, since you seem to be going all in on the drowning me in paperwork thing, but I will suggest that you are unequivocally wrong in whatever it was you posited. For you only: "prove me wrong in 100 words or fewer".
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 07:11 AM
That's a misunderstanding of Dawkins, by someone who didn't even bother to try to understand the title of his book. It's The Selfish Gene, not the selfish human.
Genes just "want" to reproduce themselves, which often leads to behavior of organisms that can appear to be selfish, or it can lead to behavior which appears to be altruistic, because it doesn't necessarily lead to the survival of the organism but does lead to the survival of the gene (which is also found in other members of the species).

Just to comment on one of the points - the fact that there were many fewer people and many more resources available per person means of course there could have been less fighting over the resources. That doesn't mean that the lack of fighting was any more natural than the increased amount of fighting that happened when resources were more scarce.

And I still fail to see how this belief about human nature has become popular due to political interests. Who exactly do you think is promoting it, and how are they doing so?
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 07:14 AM
For everyone else - wazz' bloviating is pointless and he is probably getting his rocks off to writing a million words in notepad and copy-pasting them here, on the premise that it takes orders of magnitude more effort to debunk bullshit than it does to spew it.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Am I being an idiot, or did you post a picture of wasps when you keep talking about bees?
Look like bees to me. Not my area of expertise or a position I have any emotional attachment too. If you say they are wasps I am not going to argue about it.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
For everyone else - wazz' bloviating is pointless and he is probably getting his rocks off to writing a million words in notepad and copy-pasting them here, on the premise that it takes orders of magnitude more effort to debunk bullshit than it does to spew it.
It looks like most of it was copy pasted. I don't think he spent much time writing anything.

Anyways, his basic premise is that socialism/communism would work, and is something humans are naturally adapted to, except for the pesky Capitalists that dont let it work. Of course the conclusion of this thought exercise is we need to destroy society, to allow it to be remade better.

I for one am not confident enough this will work (I am actually confident it wont work) that I think this is a prudent course of action.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Dunyain
Look like bees to me. Not my area of expertise or a position I have any emotional attachment too. If you say they are wasps I am not going to argue about it.
Look, I'm not being an antisemite here, but bees have yellow stripes. They're also bigger.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 11:22 AM
I'd go with bee.


I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Didace
I'd go with bee.


Wait, what? Not only was kel right, but the fat ones are not the ones making honey?
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 03:01 PM
The picture showed honey bees. We don't get honey from bumblebees (the big furry characters who are still bumbling about outside my front window, visiting the castor oil bush out there, even in November -- but the bush is flowering, so here they are) because they don't produce the surplus that the smaller honey bees do.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Wait, what? Not only was kel right, but the fat ones are not the ones making honey?
The fat ones eat it.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Wait, what? Not only was kel right, but the fat ones are not the ones making honey?
I mean, I google searched bees and copy-pasted the first picture that came up. It isn't like I went into the wild and took my own pictures based on my own expertise in entomology. I am not sure how much credit I can take here. If it had somehow been a picture of wasps I wouldn't have cared all that much, especially considering to the best of my knowledge wasps are haplodiploid too, so the point would have been same.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-18-2023 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunyain
I mean, I google searched bees and copy-pasted the first picture that came up. It isn't like I went into the wild and took my own pictures based on my own expertise in entomology. I am not sure how much credit I can take here. If it had somehow been a picture of wasps I wouldn't have cared all that much, especially considering to the best of my knowledge wasps are haplodiploid too, so the point would have been same.
Sounds like you are the one making honey, sweetheart.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-19-2023 , 12:13 PM
How did this bullshit actually make a second page?
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-19-2023 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Wait, what? Not only was kel right, but the fat ones are not the ones making honey?
Is this a troll?
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-19-2023 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunyain
Anyways, his basic premise is that socialism/communism would work, and is something humans are naturally adapted to, except for the pesky Capitalists that dont let it work. Of course the conclusion of this thought exercise is we need to destroy society, to allow it to be remade better.

I for one am not confident enough this will work (I am actually confident it wont work) that I think this is a prudent course of action.
The current system isn't working and it's also hurtling us towards climate catastrophe, in case you hadn't noticed.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-20-2023 , 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
The race of Men is failing. The blood of Númenor is all but spent, its pride and dignity forgotten.

Its perversions of dignity, and a corruptive pride

Spoiler:
hey, you're a crazy biatch, but you f so good
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-20-2023 , 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoppedRainingMen
How did this bullshit actually make a second page?
Because I should've said men are oppressed in the legal parts of American society

men doing illegal things to women is oppressive and need to end immediately. There is no debate that women suffer femicide at the hands of men.

If we look at things that are legal, and we look at how a society operates within the realm of acceptable behavior, men are oppressed.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-20-2023 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalfrezi
The current system isn't working and it's also hurtling us towards climate catastrophe, in case you hadn't noticed.

“Climate catastrophe” I believe men to be the oppressed in American society.I believe men to be the oppressed in American society.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote
11-21-2023 , 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalfrezi
The current system isn't working and it's also hurtling us towards climate catastrophe, in case you hadn't noticed.
You are right. We need to conquer the leftists holding us back and making the world such a dangerous place, and let markets and technology come up with a solution.
I believe men to be the oppressed in American society. Quote

      
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