hard disagree on this

asian's view beauty as a result of working at it

yes, some people have much better starting points than others, but everyone, no matter how ugly they are naturally, can do things like working out, dressing nicely, having good hygiene, and performing minor corrective surgeries (80% of korean women have all had some minor work done)

we don't villainize people who spent 5k on fixing their teeth but for some reason find spending 3k on a boob job or 7k fixing their nose as reprehensible

again, i'm not saying you need to get surgical work done - just that there's a lot of steps you can take, and if your life is truly that awful because of some skin deep issues, well you can reshape that skin for less than the cost of busting in the main event

As a guy, if you're 5'5 and have a face for radio, no amount of showering, working out, or plastic surgery is going to change that.

that's not true

yes it'll suck

but prospects can be improved by hard work

Youth obviously can't be learned or improved, and it is one of those things that is very valuable for women.

Looks can be improved for both genders, but there are obviously hard limits for everybody. There may be limits to how much somebody can improve their charisma, money-making potential, and status as well. The difference is, just as you alluded to, there is something of a stigma behind getting cosmetic surgery, and that is especially true if people are young.

When it comes to money and status, those are things that are expected to be improved naturally as time goes by, especially for men. I'd argue that is the same for charisma as well, but that is a more complicated area. Frankly, a lot of these "oppressed" men would do much better in life if they understood this as a concept. I think you will find that a large proportion of these "oppressed" incels are just terminally online weirdos that spend all their time playing WoW and arguing about the benefits of fascism or communism on Reddit all day. They then have the nerve to wonder why they aren't getting laid. How about get a job? Develop a skill? Go to the gym and build some confidence? ANYTHING?

It is really peak-entitlement for the lowest quality men to demand the highest quality women, and then whine that they are oppressed when they don't get them.

Maybe, if you want to work hard in order to be valued as a partner. Women don't have to do that. And I think charisma is a pretty fixed personality trait.

I haven't read the thread much but I have an idea of the kinds of things the OP is going to talk about here. Quite frankly, as a 41 year old single male, I don't give a **** enough to feel oppressed at this point. Oppressed? I'm an American who's free, owes no money, and has his physical health. Who's oppressing me? Nobody. You have to take responsibility for what you do and don't have. Don't blame society.

And either use Facebook to meet women or actually go out and try to meet them in person, face to face. Dating apps are long, long dead.

No such thing as a fixed personality trait. People can change dramatically due to certain events or experiences, regardless of their age. Acknowledge the problem, take responsibility for it, and then take steps to rectify it. That's it. Don't blame women or "fixed personality traits". You're overcomplicating the game.

I never said it was oppressive, I said it was easier for the average woman than the average guy. When I was dating as a 6 foot tall guy who hit the gym hard and had a good job yeah it was a pretty good deal. I could date multiple women until I found someone I wanted to marry. For friends that were short they literally got nothing. The one exception was my cousin who had extremely high charisma so he was able to do well just talking to women in public. A lot of the women I dated had no job, did not take fitness seriously, and still had plenty of interest.

I have never dated at 40 but by that age most people have settled down or are not interested in long term relationships.

This is a nonsense attitude that I doubt most left leaning people share. One of the woman I casually dated had slept with over 200 guys and she was in her early twenties. I never looked down at her and anyone who did is a loser. She was awesome and we got along great. No games, just someone interested in casual sex. And even if some incel or busybody did look down on her there plenty of people who liked her.

wat

There are ranges. If you are on the spectrum you are probably not going to become extremely charismatic no matter what you do. You can learn to tone down weird behavior and learn some basic social skills.

Not quite sure what this means but if it's facebook you're questioning: It is, by far, the fastest and easiest way to meet women online. The dating apps can't hold a candle to it today.

Of course. There are limits but there are also outliers. I was just saying that with roughly 8 billion people on the planet today, it's a little difficult to generalize what a person can or can't do.

Kinda lost on how perceived difficulty in dating is related to being oppressed.

So you guys ask girls

Hey how many people have you slept with?


I haven’t asked anyone that since I was like 25. And I’ve had sex with over 100 girls. Why do you guys ask them this? And you think they tell the truth????

What does this have to do with men being oppressed?

lol...it's always a round number. Always.

It doesn't, but that is one of PW's spicy takes, so that's what the thread is into right now.

If you're editing a post like this 30 mins afterwords
then there's a good chance you're being sincere in your battles here.

I've been with my wife since senior year in HS so I wouldn't have any clue about what the dating world is like but if I were single at my age now, I'd only be interested in finding a companion that would share the interests and hobbies that I have now and make those moments a bit more fulfilling. Everything else is just a bunch of insecure self serving horseshit.

If you've had sex with over 100 women, what has you feeling oppressed? Are you disappointed it isn't like 1000?

When did I say I was oppressed?

You can have sex with lots of women and be oppressed. They aren’t mutually exclusive

This doesn't negate your point, but the picture you took of Tom Cruise is from a movie (The Outsiders) where he was consciously made to look like that for the part, and he was already extremely good looking (with a full toothed smile) by any objective measure.

I think it's pretty tough for someone with social anxiety and doesn't have the nerve to speak to people in public to become charismatic enough to draw women to him.

Sounds like a good time for a helpful hints thread.

I was completely racked with social anxiety when I was a young guy. Nowadays, speaking publicly is part of my living. This is 100% something that can be developed, and probably the easiest out of the four to improve quickly (looks, status, money, charisma).