The word "except" doing a lot of work here.

True; post Reconstruction, when the old Southern guard again took power, that part of the amendment resulted in a lot of abuse which forced many freed slaves back into de facto slavery.

You went to terrible high school if only 1 person got a 5 on any AP test in subjects that were actually taught. I went to a mediocre high school and people were getting 5s on things like music theory which wasn't even a class you could take.

There was no music theory AP test when I went to high school. I don't know when that started, but I'm pretty sure they recalibrated and boosted the scores at some point. I know they did for the SAT.

Anyway though, even though it was a long time ago, I still know US history much better than Trolly.

With a lot of the sane people in the party leaving, I expect the trend toward wackiness to continue as long as Trump leads the GOP.

That might only be until next year, though.

Liz Cheney just said that if Trump is the Republican nominee in 2024, she expects the party to splinter.

https://www.businessinsider.com/liz-...ominee-2022-10

I don't expect the party to splinter in a major way. I just don't think there are enough Republicans like Cheney for it to happen.

For that matter, in a fair world, Liz Cheney would be drawing live for the GOP nomination and lauded within her own party for standing up to Trump. But the world is not fair.

In a fair world neocons would be forced to live in a place where bad things happen to them.

I'd agree with that take. There have been so many "this has to be the final drop"-moments the last 7 years, but it has never actually been the final drop.

Take Ted Cruz. As a sitting GOP senator, he hid from the 6th of January mob in a broom closet and initially called the event a "violent terrorist attack".

Later he would go on one of the nation's largest political talk shows and refer to that same mob as "patriots at the Capitol that day to protest the results of the presidential election".

It's absurd.

Not hard to believe from Ted Cruz though. Among all US politicians with a national profile, he seems to be second in douchebaggery only to the Trumpster himself.

i just cant understand how voters think he works for them ....

yeah absurd idk.

A) because people can change their view on things

and

B) people might say what they think advances their MOs.

I had to reread this post since I thought rococo wrote it first. would have never thought you wrote it as it sounds so perfectly american.

are you living in the US now tame?

I agree with the sentiment that there have been so many final drop moments. that's why I think it's pathetic to keep saying "oh now he messed up, now we get him, now he gets impeached, now he goes to jail" I think that is just a much absurd. that is exactly, if I'm not mistaking, what they said about bush. it feels like a dejavu.

and I hate what bush did in Iraq, just as much as i hate what Obama did in the middle east and Biden in Afghanistan and Ukraine.

they all lie and manipulate to get their agenda forward. that's what's happening. dems and reps.

I have never understood Cruz's appeal, even to people who share his views on policy. He just isn't a likeable person, unless you like people who are aggressively smug and disingenuous.

Well, he is an attorney

Over the years, I have talked to a couple of Cruz's law school classmates, one of whom is still in touch with him. It doesn't sound like Cruz's personality has changed much over the last three decades.

Have you considered that being an obnoxious bully is a thing some voters like? In the era of Trump I think we need to look at politicians in that light.

Of course. I live in a state that elected Andrew Cuomo as governor.

I guess that I meant Cruz wouldn't appeal to me even if I shared his views on policy.

And all in service to one man, Trump.

Not the GOP party or any ideals. just a very flawed man.

As someone who was very aware of who Trump was and how he was generally regarded prior to the Apprentice and his presidency (and i know Rococo shares these views), he is near to the worst example of what you would typically see in any person of importance in American society generally.

So what broader question does this pose about humanity when I do not think any 'good' person could inspire the type of loyalty and obsequiousness that Trump does? Where people are so willing to just throw away facts and honesty?

Why does it seems it is easier as a despot to gain loyalty, than it is for a 'good' person?

i really thought that trump exposing the "bully" as a coward by being the bigger bully would shatter the image of some of these "tough" republicans.

that photo of cruz being sad meekly making calls to tell people to vote trump after trump called him and his wife names should have destroyed his entire image/ended all that "tough" ****..

This speaks to my prior question/point.

And I guess the answer is that in the most reprehensible people who show no real moral fortitude, many people see a path to getting their desired fulfilled whether those desires are good or worthy or not.

So, for example, if you pro slavery, you know there is no path today top get that done by supporting good/moral people, but if you support a person with no morals and who just is interested in power and will give you what you want to get it, then you see a path.


I think a whole swath of the GOP base knows there is no longer any credible path to maintain the one sided power they have enjoyed throughout history and the only path to maintain that type of power and advantage now is by aligning with despots. They understand there is a risk in aligning with despots, that your self interests may diverge and he may turn on you too, but that is better, to them, than the certainty they feel they face today, with changing demographics.

Liz Cheney is not a sane person by any objective measure.

Which Republican with a national profile would you prefer to see as the GOP candidate for president (understanding, of course, that you are certain to disagree with the policies of whoever the nominee is)? I might be able to come up with a couple of names, all of whom also have no chance of actually being the nominee. But I certainly couldn't give you a bunch of names.

its not about which one I would prefer. dont really care. my point was that Liz is insane. and by extension, they all are insane.

Anybody without the last name Trump or related to him

I always thought the same thing about Donald Trump. I wouldn't be able to bring myself to support him even if I disagreed with all his policy preferences.