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Hitler was a socialist Hitler was a socialist

08-09-2020 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwax13
This thread is ****ing hysterical. I’ve never seen someone so sure of something that is so easily proven false. Yo OP, did you make it from broke to millionaire yet? Your posting history is incredible. Keep up the good work.


https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/conte...icle/fascism-1


by the way encyclopedias are tertiary sources yo - we're going deeper than that here, if u wanna keep up
08-09-2020 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
Bolded part is not an argument. It's interesting, and I'm actually curious why it's the case, as I've seen 0 evidence so far of his "fascism." If anyone actually shows some, I will call him a fascist.
Fascist as in the Italian party? No, by that definition Germany's Nazi Party was not fascist. They were after all, German.

Fascist as in ascribing to what is commonly called fascist ideology to the extent where they even co-opted many of the Italians' policies and actions, pretty much a hard yes.

Fascist as in the historical classification of a political ideology? Of course. A few argumentative historians would probably say that Fascism should only be used about the Italian movement specifically, but I think it is safe to say that this cat is out of the bag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism_in_Europe
08-09-2020 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
I love a guy who insults you as he runs away from an argument
You must mean like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
I'm not attacking your intelligence. It's that you don't use it that concerns me.
I count about a dozen questions you left hanging in that thread, and that was your last post. The undisputed king of hypocrisy strikes again.
08-09-2020 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
Maybe there was some influence, sure. But there was clearly some influence from Marx as evidenced in hundreds of quotes - also Marx influenced fascism. So should we call Hitler a Marxist?
I am surprised that you claim not to know this, but... he was rather vocally anti-Marxist. It was a big part of his platform and in Mein Kampf he called for 'the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms.' And you might recall he conducted a bit of a campaign against the Soviet Union. It was in the papers and everything.
08-09-2020 , 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 On Red
I am surprised that you claim not to know this, but... he was rather vocally anti-Marxist. It was a big part of his platform and in Mein Kampf he called for 'the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms.'
Yep. The German concentration camps were originally made to get rid of the Marxists and the socialists.

It's probably also safe to say that if you had attempted to call Hitler a Marxist or influenced by Marx and the wrong people overheard you, you'd be joining those people on the train.
08-09-2020 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be exterminated
-A. Hitler
08-09-2020 , 05:45 PM
It seems I must leave the role of debater behind and put on the moderator hat.

Keep it civil people. There is no need to call each-other names.
08-09-2020 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 On Red
I am surprised that you claim not to know this, but... he was rather vocally anti-Marxist. It was a big part of his platform and in Mein Kampf he called for 'the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms.' And you might recall he conducted a bit of a campaign against the Soviet Union. It was in the papers and everything.
You missed my point. If you read the OP he was clearly ant-Marxist but that doesn't mean he wsan't influenced by Marx. He was, clearly in his conversations with others and you can see it in his speeches. I'm not saying he was a marxist, he wasn't. I'm saying just because he was influenced by Mussolini and fascism doesn't prove anything. Everyone is influenced by practically everything.

I'm sure Hitler read Marx.

I've read Marx, and I've been influeced by him. It's hard not to be. He's a seductive writer and his critique of capitalism cuts pretty deep. I just happen to think he hasn't come up with a better alternative.
08-09-2020 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
You must mean like this?



I count about a dozen questions you left hanging in that thread, and that was your last post. The undisputed king of hypocrisy strikes again.
You've insulted me plenty. I haven't whined about it. It just makes me laugh, like shuffle does
08-09-2020 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
You missed my point. If you read the OP he was clearly ant-Marxist but that doesn't mean he wsan't influenced by Marx. He was, clearly in his conversations with others and you can see it in his speeches. I'm not saying he was a marxist, he wasn't. I'm saying just because he was influenced by Mussolini and fascism doesn't prove anything. Everyone is influenced by practically everything.
Just because he was influenced by Mussolini and fascism doesn't prove anything. But because he was influenced by Marx, that proves he was a socialist. Gotcha.

There are more shining examples of logic identical to this from OP in the China thread. It's truly a sight to behold.
08-09-2020 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
America is a welfare state to a degree but taxes can always go up and up, which is what she wants. It's a bad move for GDP growth.

You don't understand basic economics. Bezos isn't taking profit from people, it's a willing exchange. He's growing the economy in proportion to how much he makes, creating jobs, adding value. He does pay taxes, as do sharefholders, as does the business. But if the gov't doesn't incentivize them to stay, amazon will just move offshore and pay 0 taxes.

You want the amazons of the world.

You don't want them out of the country.
when someone or corporations isn’t paying taxes , it is taking profits from people because who’s going to pay for it if not the people ?
Furthermore, trump for example spend over 1 trillions MORE than Obama in his first 3 years pre-Covid , now that is great for the economy right ?
And who’s gone pay it if not with higher taxes ?

Hint :
I am pretty sure expanding debts is worst than raise taxes but like you said , I know nothing about basics economics.
08-09-2020 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
You've insulted me plenty. I haven't whined about it. It just makes me laugh, like shuffle does
The point is that you're guilty of the same behaviour that you criticise others for. More generally, you seem to have a massive blind spot for how your own arguments apply to you yourself and your own politics.
08-09-2020 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Just because he was influenced by Mussolini and fascism doesn't prove anything. But because he was influenced by Marx, that proves he was a socialist. Gotcha.

There are more shining examples of logic identical to this from OP in the China thread. It's truly a sight to behold.
You should probably just give up, you're levels behind.
08-09-2020 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
You should probably just give up, you're levels behind.
Solid response, OP. In b4 "it's common sense" and "USE YOUR HEAD".
08-09-2020 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
It seems I must leave the role of debater behind and put on the moderator hat.

Keep it civil people. There is no need to call each-other names.

I thought people were being hyperbolic when they called the current P&S forum “Nazi Sympathizers”.

People that falsify history and outright lie to support a wannabe fascist deserve to called names. Sorry snowflake.
08-09-2020 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
when someone or corporations isn’t paying taxes , it is taking profits from people because who’s going to pay for it if not the people ?
Furthermore, trump for example spend over 1 trillions MORE than Obama in his first 3 years pre-Covid , now that is great for the economy right ?
And who’s gone pay it if not with higher taxes ?
You need to look up the Laffer curve. Higher taxes doesn't equate to more income. Lower taxes can generate more revenue as it did in the Reagan years.

There are many ways to pay for the gross overspending. Taxes don't pay nearly enough. Social security is already putting us way overspending. Bonds, selling our debt, pays for a lot of it.

To more directly answer your question - amazon's employees pay taxes. There are sales taxes on goods purchased through amazon. Amazon creates massive revenue for the state that would not exist if amazon didn't exist.
08-09-2020 , 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
The fact of the matter is Hitler wasn't a classical liberal, which doesn't necessarily make him right-wing. Heavy regulation of industry isn't the hallmark of right-wing politics. I remember a few months ago there's a bunch of lefties wanting Trump to essentially nationalize manufacturers to produce medical equipment.
And what did he do instead? Quite literally wrap himself in CEOs(at the early corona briefs) kinda like a bundle of sticks with one/leader in the middle And tell us how our great private companies at his request were going to save us.

So, why do you think Hitler teamed up with Mussolini/Italy and Hirohito/Japan?? A literal fascist as well himself and an Emperor

On the other side we have the UK, the US and the USSR. Kinda leaning a little to the left on that side with that kooky democracy stuff and all
08-09-2020 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
You need to look up the Laffer curve. Higher taxes doesn't equate to more income. Lower taxes can generate more revenue as it did in the Reagan years.

There are many ways to pay for the gross overspending. Taxes don't pay nearly enough. Social security is already putting us way overspending. Bonds, selling our debt, pays for a lot of it.

To more directly answer your question - amazon's employees pay taxes. There are sales taxes on goods purchased through amazon. Amazon creates massive revenue for the state that would not exist if amazon didn't exist.
It all depends what taxes pay to make it beneficial or not for the economy .
The levels of taxation as nothing to do with it .

Nothing special about amazon employees paying taxes , all employed pays taxes , what your point ?

If amazon didn’t exist , other smaller companies would exist anyway .....but the difference is they would pay federal taxes ...
08-09-2020 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
Maybe there was some influence, sure.
Maybe? Please explain why you aren't comfortable with "definitely".
08-09-2020 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
OP desperately wants all the evils of the world to be associated with socialism or communism, because he can't accept that the right wing can also be bad. In OP's world, left = bad, right = good, and we mould the facts to fit the theory.
Socialism does breed dictatorships and I can't think of one good dictator in the last 50 years so there is that. Hitler was a socialist
08-09-2020 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
Fascist as in the Italian party? No, by that definition Germany's Nazi Party was not fascist. They were after all, German.

Fascist as in ascribing to what is commonly called fascist ideology to the extent where they even co-opted many of the Italians' policies and actions, pretty much a hard yes.

Fascist as in the historical classification of a political ideology? Of course. A few argumentative historians would probably say that Fascism should only be used about the Italian movement specifically, but I think it is safe to say that this cat is out of the bag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism_in_Europe
Exactly this.
08-09-2020 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
Extremist political ideologies do breed dictatorships and I can't think of one good dictator in the last 50 years so there is that. Hitler was a socialist
FYP.
08-09-2020 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
Over the last 60 years, oil endowment has bred dictatorships and I can't think of one good dictator in the last 50 years so there is that. Hitler was a socialist
FYP again
08-09-2020 , 06:25 PM
A lot of people today seem to not be able to understand certain clear cut political and historical evolutions. There is a lot of misinformation out on the web our days too that compound the problem. But one would think that someone on this forum has a modicum of intelligence.
First thing that seems to confuse people a lot is the false narrative that Democrats had the slaves and created the KKK. Technically that's true , but it ignores what happened in the 1960's. How the Republican party implemented the southern strategy. "Republicans appeal to many white southerners' racial grievances" in order to win their votes. And as soon as the civil rights bill was passed , southern democrats flocked to the Republican party. The party's' basically flipped. All one has to do is take a look at the electoral map. Southern states are predominantly red( republican) and northern states are predominantly blue
(democrat). It is ridiculous that people still confuse this.
This nonsense that socialists are fascists' is even more ******ed.
So, to keep it short, white supremacists are overwhelming Republican.

      
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