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06-08-2023 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
I assume when you say "free" you mean "rich people pay for", but please correct me if I'm wrong.

LOL at saying forcing rich people to pay for edu, food, housing, income and healthcare will be good for an economy. The percent of people working in our society would plummet within a month and the economy would suffer. I think suggesting that drastically reducing the incentive to work (as described above) is good for an economy is dumber than saying it would reduce crime, but it is close.
whats the minimum amount of annual tax do you think jeff bezos, who is worth $100 billion, should pay?
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06-08-2023 , 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
You don't need everyone to work to be successful. In a very strong country 75% can carry the 25% that cant work. I don't want people to work to survive, I want people to be incentivized to be in the best career for them which will lead to a country that is far more effective AND efficient than your proposition.
If everything you listed above were free and of reasonable quality, the system was sustainable, and there was no government coercion that forced people to work, I highly doubt that 75% of working age people would continue to work.
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06-08-2023 , 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rococo
If everything you listed above were free and of reasonable quality, the system was sustainable, and there was no government coercion that forced people to work, I highly doubt that 75% of working age people would continue to work.
you forget that people work to impress the opposite sex. you dont have a job? no good sex for you. Kinda similar to today tbh
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06-08-2023 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
you forget that people work to impress the opposite sex. you dont have a job? no good sex for you. Kinda similar to today tbh
I would give up ever working again for lower odds of sex.
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06-08-2023 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
you forget that people work to impress the opposite sex. you dont have a job? no good sex for you. Kinda similar to today tbh
You think that women have trouble finding sex unless they have a good job?
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06-08-2023 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
I mean the govt pays for via fair taxes for all. Not income taxes, but all govt fees/fines/levies/taxes/bills.

You don't need everyone to work to be successful. In a very strong country 75% can carry the 25% that cant work. I don't want people to work to survive, I want people to be incentivized to be in the best career for them which will lead to a country that is far more effective AND efficient than your proposition.
Again, the government is not paying for your wish list as they are not earning money. They are giving people the money that the rich people have earned. You know this, I'm not sure why you can't say it. What percent of all government receipts do you think comes from the poor or middle class after netting out the handouts?

You live under a rock if you think 75% of any country will work if they got handed everything from your wish list. If you don't believe me then go ask 10 random strangers who currently work why they are working, when they say money then ask them why they want money and when they say to buy things from your checklist then ask them if they would still work if they were guaranteed everything from your checklist. Instead of 75% working and 25% freeloading you would be lucky to get even 25% working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
Would you rather have a population that can grow their mind body and soul AND then work, or a society that must work first AND then is allowed to consider their mind body and soul. Mind you we live in a country that has enough resources to support the poor, we just choose not to.
I would prefer to live in a society where people must work and then they can consider their mind, body and soul. Your made up society has never and will never work long-time in the real world, but like others like you before they know it sounds great.

This is such low level thinking that I am waiting for you to ask me why the government shouldn't just give everyone a million dollars so everyone can be a millionaire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
whats the minimum amount of annual tax do you think jeff bezos, who is worth $100 billion, should pay?
I don't know jeff's personal finances. However, I assume a lot of his net worth is tied to the stock of his company, but I'm not sure if he is selling some of it off every year or if he is just holding onto it and his only income is a salary. You tell me his income (and the sources) and I can give you an answer to your question.
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06-08-2023 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
You think that women have trouble finding sex unless they have a good job?
sex and dating are two wildly different things. and women arent like men, they are picky
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06-08-2023 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
Again, the government is not paying for your wish list as they are not earning money. They are giving people the money that the rich people have earned. You know this, I'm not sure why you can't say it. What percent of all government receipts do you think comes from the poor or middle class after netting out the handouts?

You live under a rock if you think 75% of any country will work if they got handed everything from your wish list. If you don't believe me then go ask 10 random strangers who currently work why they are working, when they say money then ask them why they want money and when they say to buy things from your checklist then ask them if they would still work if they were guaranteed everything from your checklist. Instead of 75% working and 25% freeloading you would be lucky to get even 25% working.



I would prefer to live in a society where people must work and then they can consider their mind, body and soul. Your made up society has never and will never work long-time in the real world, but like others like you before they know it sounds great.

This is such low level thinking that I am waiting for you to ask me why the government shouldn't just give everyone a million dollars so everyone can be a millionaire.



I don't know jeff's personal finances. However, I assume a lot of his net worth is tied to the stock of his company, but I'm not sure if he is selling some of it off every year or if he is just holding onto it and his only income is a salary. You tell me his income (and the sources) and I can give you an answer to your question.
the rich pay the govt to keep the poor from cutting their heads off

when the govt gets tax revenue and redistributes it to the needy, the govt is doing it, not the rich. If the rich did it themselves then they wouldnt need the govt to protect them.

by your logic, once people make a certain amount of money they no longer try to make more or buy nicer things. we all know this isnt remotely true in america as americans spend more than they earn , unlike japan.

jeff bezos is worth over $100billion, how much in annual taxes do you think he should pay? Please answer the question, its about your ethics.
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06-08-2023 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
the rich pay the govt to keep the poor from cutting their heads off

when the govt gets tax revenue and redistributes it to the needy, the govt is doing it, not the rich. If the rich did it themselves then they wouldnt need the govt to protect them.

by your logic, once people make a certain amount of money they no longer try to make more or buy nicer things. we all know this isnt remotely true in america as americans spend more than they earn , unlike japan.
If you think rich people pay taxes to keep poor people from attacking them then why haven't we seen one really rich person stop paying taxes and just spend 10% of what they pay in taxes to build an army and security system? Remember that income inequality has never and will never be a problem in a country as free as the US currently is.

Redistributing wealth does not equal the government bailing someone out and it does not equal them paying for your wish list. If anyone is paying for your wish list (which is never happening) it would be rich people - we would all turn into nothing more than some spoiled sugar babies.

I never said everyone had an income number that once hit they would never work again. I just said that would apply to a **** load of people where "a **** load of people" equals an amount where if your fairyland happened it would crumble within a couple years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
jeff bezos is worth over $100billion, how much in annual taxes do you think he should pay? Please answer the question, its about your ethics.
I asked you for some pretty basic info for me to answer your question and you didn't attempt to guess at any of it. How would I know how much any person should pay in taxes if I don't know their income and income sources?
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06-08-2023 , 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
So you want to entirely discount circumstances that people are born into or the decision making ability of children for that matter?
I have never heard of someone being born into a gang, and I can't imagine even children not knowing what being part of a gang entails.

I was also happy when members of one religion/sect and another kill lots of each other. Each one is a religious zealot the rest of us don't have to fear.
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06-08-2023 , 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
If you think rich people pay taxes to keep poor people from attacking them then why haven't we seen one really rich person stop paying taxes and just spend 10% of what they pay in taxes to build an army and security system? Remember that income inequality has never and will never be a problem in a country as free as the US currently is.

Redistributing wealth does not equal the government bailing someone out and it does not equal them paying for your wish list. If anyone is paying for your wish list (which is never happening) it would be rich people - we would all turn into nothing more than some spoiled sugar babies.

I never said everyone had an income number that once hit they would never work again. I just said that would apply to a **** load of people where "a **** load of people" equals an amount where if your fairyland happened it would crumble within a couple years.



I asked you for some pretty basic info for me to answer your question and you didn't attempt to guess at any of it. How would I know how much any person should pay in taxes if I don't know their income and income sources?
What??

I am pretty certain the vast majority of people in the US believe that income inequality is a serious problem here.

And the rich people don't just stop paying taxes and get their own security because the law says they have to pay taxes (although most manipulate it to pay as little as possible). Did you seriously ask that question?
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06-08-2023 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
If you think rich people pay taxes to keep poor people from attacking them then why haven't we seen one really rich person stop paying taxes and just spend 10% of what they pay in taxes to build an army and security system? Remember that income inequality has never and will never be a problem in a country as free as the US currently is.

Redistributing wealth does not equal the government bailing someone out and it does not equal them paying for your wish list. If anyone is paying for your wish list (which is never happening) it would be rich people - we would all turn into nothing more than some spoiled sugar babies.

I never said everyone had an income number that once hit they would never work again. I just said that would apply to a **** load of people where "a **** load of people" equals an amount where if your fairyland happened it would crumble within a couple years.



I asked you for some pretty basic info for me to answer your question and you didn't attempt to guess at any of it. How would I know how much any person should pay in taxes if I don't know their income and income sources?
im not sure if youre serious but are you implying there is only one tax one needs to pay annually, and that is an income tax?

I said TAXES, that means more than one class, in fact it probably means ALL taxes but not necessarily.

So Ill ask you for a third time, how much money in TAXES should Jeff bezos who is worth $100 billion pay.
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06-08-2023 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
What??

I am pretty certain the vast majority of people in the US believe that income inequality is a serious problem here.

And the rich people don't just stop paying taxes and get their own security because the law says they have to pay taxes (although most manipulate it to pay as little as possible). Did you seriously ask that question?
this is a great point as it highlights what I previously said, that they rich pay taxes so they arent killed by the poor.


govt employees are poor, except for the corrupt ones. if the rich dont pay their taxes, the govt will come and take their stuff, and if they resist, its possible they will be killed there, and possible they get killed in prison. In order to avoid this, they pay taxes, and as chill rob said, they do many many things to avoid doing so

Panama papers anyone?

A KEY REASON THE RICH DONT WANT THE POOR TO HAVE GUNS IS BECAUSE THEN THE POOR CAN CONTROL THE RICH
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06-08-2023 , 05:50 PM
It's rare to see someone argue for a vision of the country where 40% of working age people don't have a job, everyone has a gun, and no one really cares how many people get shot with those guns.
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06-08-2023 , 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rococo
It's rare to see someone argue for a vision of the country where 40% of working age people don't have a job, everyone has a gun, and no one really cares how many people get shot with those guns.
25% would be nice, I wish we all had a gun and body armor. How many people do you think are killed through acts of gun violence from another person?

with a population of 400 million and 50% of households owning guns, what do you think a reasonable amount of deaths from gun violence is,

how does this compare to your knowledge of people killed with non gun weapons, like knives or cars or hammers? Have you compared the two? If you havent compared the two, are you actually concerned about people dying or just about people dying from guns?
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06-08-2023 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
govt pays women to sleep with men.
But wait... why would women want to get paid to sleep with fugly men when everything that costs money is already free to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
you forget that people work to impress the opposite sex. you dont have a job? no good sex for you. Kinda similar to today tbh

But if the government provides sex, they don't need to pay for it nor work to attract it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
A KEY REASON THE RICH DONT WANT THE POOR TO HAVE GUNS IS BECAUSE THEN THE POOR CAN CONTROL THE RICH
All CAPS... gotta be real important.

If the wealthy controls the world and the wealthy don't want the poor to have guns, why are firearms so affordable?
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06-08-2023 , 06:40 PM
If everyone had body armor, (and wore it all the time, and it worked perfectly,) wouldn't that make guns useless?
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06-08-2023 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I have never heard of someone being born into a gang, and I can't imagine even children not knowing what being part of a gang entails.

I was also happy when members of one religion/sect and another kill lots of each other. Each one is a religious zealot the rest of us don't have to fear.
I think you’re massively overestimating the decision making abilities of children and underestimating the role your environment plays on your preferences and the choices available to you.

Do you think kids born into areas without a high prevalence of gang activity aren’t forming their own gangs purely because they’re better decision makers? Would every child who joins a gang be just as likely to land in trouble had they been born into a different environment? If you were born in rural Afghanistan do you think you’d likely turn out to be an atheist giving hot takes on a poker forum?
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06-08-2023 , 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
If everyone had body armor, (and wore it all the time, and it worked perfectly,) wouldn't that make guns useless?
no but it would make them less deadly imo and thats fine by me. Body armor doesnt negate bullets and it doesnt cover the entire body
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06-08-2023 , 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
I think you’re massively overestimating the decision making abilities of children and underestimating the role your environment plays on your preferences and the choices available to you.

Do you think kids born into areas without a high prevalence of gang activity aren’t forming their own gangs purely because they’re better decision makers? Would every child who joins a gang be just as likely to land in trouble had they been born into a different environment? If you were born in rural Afghanistan do you think you’d likely turn out to be an atheist giving hot takes on a poker forum?
I know there are some people who grow up in areas with prevalent gangs who never join said gangs.

The children that do maybe would have not run into trouble if they had been born into a different environment, but that doesn't matter to me. If they're already committing acts of violence, I don't mind them having acts of violence perpetrated on them, and in general I think it's extremely rare that such a person will ever not be likely to fall back into a violent lifestyle again as an adult.

If I had been born in rural Afghanistan, I would have certainly tried to get out of the rural area, and out of the country as soon as possible. If I managed to do so, I may have turned out similarly, but that is impossible to know.

I am certain that I would still be an atheist. I was raised catholic and went to catholic schools for 12 years, so I know that for anyone who thinks for themselves it is not that difficult to discard the beliefs they were raised with.
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06-08-2023 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I know there are some people who grow up in areas with prevalent gangs who never join said gangs.
We’re talking about probability. You could never wear a seatbelt or smoke every day or whatever and get away with it. Being an exception doesn’t erase the trend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
The children that do maybe would have not run into trouble if they had been born into a different environment, but that doesn't matter to me. If they're already committing acts of violence, I don't mind them having acts of violence perpetrated on them, and in general I think it's extremely rare that such a person will ever not be likely to fall back into a violent lifestyle again as an adult.
I’d like to see something to back up the opinion that a child in a gang is forever tainted and unlikely to be able to be rehabilitated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
If I had been born in rural Afghanistan, I would have certainly tried to get out of the rural area, and out of the country as soon as possible. And I would still be an atheist. I was raised catholic and went to catholic schools for 12 years, so I know that anyone who is not a sheep can discard the beliefs they were raised with.
This is an insane take. It’s probably very unlikely that you’d be introduced to atheism in anything but a negative way if at all. You’d be virtually guaranteed to be a practicing Muslim.
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06-08-2023 , 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
how does this compare to your knowledge of people killed with non gun weapons, like knives or cars or hammers? Have you compared the two? If you havent compared the two, are you actually concerned about people dying or just about people dying from guns?
Approximately 75% of homicides are committed with guns and 25% are committed in other ways. Here is a graphic for 2019 based on FBI data.

https://www.criminalattorneycolumbus...-homicides.png

I don't want people to be murdered any kind of way, but for obvious reasons, it is impractical to limit the purchase of items that we use to chop vegetables, drive in nails, or tie boats to docks.

As for your other question, which I have answered before, if the U.S. had levels of gun violence that were in the range of comparable countries, I wouldn't be particularly concerned.

Last edited by Rococo; 06-08-2023 at 07:42 PM.
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06-08-2023 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
We’re talking about probability. You could never wear a seatbelt or smoke every day or whatever and get away with it. Being an exception doesn’t erase the trend.



I’d like to see something to back up the opinion that a child in a gang is forever tainted and unlikely to be able to be rehabilitated.



This is an insane take. It’s probably very unlikely that you’d be introduced to atheism in anything but a negative way if at all. You’d be virtually guaranteed to be a practicing Muslim.
Do you think I wasn't indoctrinated into religion just as much as anyone has been? I went to religious schools and all my family was (and still is) religious. I didn't need to be "introduced to atheism", all I needed to do was read the Bible and figure out that it was BS.

I also left the area I was born and moved across the country to somewhere I knew no one and had no support system. I might not have been successful doing that in Afghanistan, but I certainly would have tried.

You're so locked into your worldview of not wanting anyone to be blamed for their actions that you refuse to believe it is possible for someone to give up their religion. Oh, but it's apparently easy for them to give up their life of crime.
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06-08-2023 , 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
If I had been born in rural Afghanistan, I would have certainly tried to get out of the rural area, and out of the country as soon as possible. If I managed to do so, I may have turned out similarly, but that is impossible to know.

I am certain that I would still be an atheist. I was raised catholic and went to catholic schools for 12 years, so I know that for anyone who thinks for themselves it is not that difficult to discard the beliefs they were raised with.
This whole take feels very naive.
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06-08-2023 , 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Rococo
This whole take feels very naive.
Ok, so the other choice is that no one can escape their upbringing, so we should definitely execute every 10 year old in a gang.

You can't have it both ways.
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