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03-21-2024 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Question for you Luciom: if the Marxists manage to get into power, as they did in the Soviet Union and China last century, presumably they don't just stop being Marxist. And by your definition anyone engaging in protests against them with any degree of violence are also Marxists, correct? So we appear to have a Marxist on Marxist situation in this scenario, have I understood this correctly? The Marxists are both driving the tank and standing in front of it.
No if the state becomes undemocratic, if the constitution becomes toilet paper and so on, violent political action isn't Marxist as I wrote repeatedly and you seemed to acknowledge.

You can have Marxist v Marxist confrontations but that would require other elements to call the group Marxist.

For ex china and Vietnam had a war in 1979
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03-21-2024 , 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Luciom
tribalism is the most basic of the class struggles. Class struggle means that , the idea people can neatly be divided in groups in monolithical opposition one to the other, and the following (for marxist) idea that you can only solve the struggle by abolishing all groups except one.

class struggle
noun
variants or class war or class warfare
: opposition of and contention between social or economic classes
especially : such a struggle between or felt to exist between the proletariat and the capitalist classes


The fact that class struggle is typically (especially) used to define a specific struggle as described by original marxists, doesn't mean it doesn't apply to citizens vs immigrants as well.

Citizen and immigrant are very much social classes.
Plenty people regardless of their social class are anti immigration. An anti immigration stance is essentially based on ethno tribalism, again at its core.
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03-21-2024 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luciom
yes nazists were very marxist in their framework, i literally linked you goebbels saying very marxists things.

Eco terrorism is pure marxism as well , exactly.

I think you are getting the idea now.

If i ever wrote "violent riot" without citing the political aspect which i did most of the times it's just for brevity i guess, i clearly don't consider marxist a football riot. The motivation must be political.

It's not that i think "only marxists" advocate violence, i am saying advocating for POLITICAL violence (in a democracy etc) MAKES YOU A MARXIST.

Again, think eugenetics: advocating for violent eugenetics MAKES YOU A NAZI
Right. Anyone or group regardless of their ideology are marxist as soon as they resort to or advocate violence, due to Marxism also advocating violence. Which means all violent riots/groups/people are marxists. Not that Marxism isn't the only ideology that advocates violence, it's that all groups are Marxist instead...

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03-21-2024 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luciom
corpus, example of why it's useful to label right-wing terrorism as Marxist:

every time in society a group acts with political violence and people don't condamn that as a heinous act , with the strongest terms possible, and don't ask for brutal, draconian repression of those acts, they help the "other side" do political violence as well.

not treating BLM violent riots as marxism (or with extreme strength and so on) allows the Jan 6 riots, and not treating the Jan 6 riots as marxism allows Marxism to flourish in the republican party, as it is, and allows future BLM or climatic or whatever riots.

it's a circle of political violence which feeds on itself even if the content is apparently opposite. because people miss the core approach is identical (Marxism), the idea you are morally justified to act with political violence when the government does something you disagree a lot with.

if all instances of political violence were treated equally, as cancer that can't exist in civil society, we are still at a stage where we can fix it.

and then we have to fix the part where those concepts are pushed as moral positives by people who agree with the intent.

And it starts in universities, where anyone that justifies political violence in the USA for any goal (=Marxist) should be kicked away.
Or maybe (and just run with me on this one for a minute), Marxism isn't the only ideology that thinks violence is justified.
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03-21-2024 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile
Or maybe (and just run with me on this one for a minute), Marxism isn't the only ideology that thinks violence is justified.
Right. There is also Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism.
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03-21-2024 , 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Rococo
I have another question for you Luciom.

Imagine that I live in Dallas, Texas. I take $20,000 in cash out of the bank, arm myself to the max (all with legal guns), and travel to the worst neighborhood in Dallas at 2:00 a.m. on a Saturday. I stand on a street corner and loudly count my money. Eventually, two guys try to rob me at knifepoint. I pull out my guns and fatally shoot both of them.

Before I traveled to the bad neighborhood, I told all my friends what I was going to do and explained that I hoped it would provide me with an opportunity to legally shoot someone.

My behavior almost certainly is legal in Texas. Is my behavior moral?
It is not moral because you may have enticed a drunk and/or desperate, usually law abiding, citizen to do something bad in a moment of weakness on a late Saturday night.

But what if you lived in a town that has recently been terrorized by a band of home invaders that sometimes killed their victims? Is planning a similar sting with some buddies immoral if we assume that your money flashing in a public place will entice those pros only to enter your house with guns, and if you don't flesh them out and eliminate them, they will continue their crimes? (I realize that the police themselves would probably set something like this up. I just want to make sure that you agree that if they refused to, your life saving action would not be immoral).

(
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03-21-2024 , 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by d2_e4
Right. There is also Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism.
Good boy, you are getting it
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03-21-2024 , 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by David Sklansky
It is not moral because you may have enticed a drunk and/or desperate, usually law abiding, citizen to do something bad in a moment of weakness on a late Saturday night.

But what if you lived in a town that has recently been terrorized by a band of home invaders that sometimes killed their victims? Is planning a similar sting with some buddies immoral if we assume that your money flashing in a public place will entice those pros only to enter your house with guns, and if you don't flesh them out and eliminate them, they will continue their crimes? (I realize that the police themselves would probably set something like this up. I just want to make sure that you agree that if they refused to, your life saving action would not be immoral).

(
In vino veritas David, you don't become a robber while drunk if you aren't one inside. I have been drunk many times and I guess many people on this forum did as well and I don't think we ever robbed anyone in that state
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03-21-2024 , 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
It is not moral because you may have enticed a drunk and/or desperate, usually law abiding, citizen to do something bad in a moment of weakness on a late Saturday night.

But what if you lived in a town that has recently been terrorized by a band of home invaders that sometimes killed their victims? Is planning a similar sting with some buddies immoral if we assume that your money flashing in a public place will entice those pros only to enter your house with guns, and if you don't flesh them out and eliminate them, they will continue their crimes? (I realize that the police themselves would probably set something like this up. I just want to make sure that you agree that if they refused to, your life saving action would not be immoral).

(
do you think the government can set people up and entice them to lie under questioning?
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04-15-2024 , 12:49 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68810428

Australia is going to need to ban knives next.
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04-15-2024 , 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckem713
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68810428

Australia is going to need to ban knives next.
Terrible, but imagine how many more people he could have killed with an automatic rifle.

Do malls there not have security guards? Seems like two guards with bats could have taken the guy down quickly.
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04-15-2024 , 01:13 AM
If the trend catches on for a lack of readily available firearms, we'll need you to defend against any restrictions to an armed militia - whether that be nuke or Swiss Army knive - and advocate instead for mental health 'measures.'

Lord knows, that's in full swing.

And with what measure you mete... it shall be measured to you again.

Inconceivable, yo
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04-15-2024 , 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Terrible, but imagine how many more people he could have killed with an automatic rifle.

Do malls there not have security guards? Seems like two guards with bats could have taken the guy down quickly.
There was clearly none nearby, neither any capable men. Unfortunately
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04-15-2024 , 01:17 AM
Get behind me, Satan, with that post number.
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04-15-2024 , 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chillrob
Terrible, but imagine how many more people he could have killed with an automatic rifle.
What about a few gallons of gasoline?
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04-15-2024 , 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wreckem713
What about a few gallons of gasoline?
What about cars?
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04-15-2024 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckem713
What about a few gallons of gasoline?
He could have driven a hundred miles or so?
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04-15-2024 , 11:46 PM



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04-15-2024 , 11:53 PM
Luciom: Marxists should all be shot.

Also Luciom: Everyone who advocates for political violence is a Marxist.
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04-16-2024 , 12:15 AM


Spoiler:

Last edited by Schlitz mmmm; 04-16-2024 at 12:36 AM.
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