The Genocide thread - Page 3 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Pol Pot was only nominally a communist. His policies were completely insane. I realise ‘not true communism’ arguments can be annoying, but this is a particularly extreme case.

I’m not sure what happened in Cambodia should be described as genocide, since I’m not sure the intent was mass killings on such a huge scale, and I don’t think the intention was to target any particular group.

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04-16-2024 , 02:37 PM

#52

PointlessWords

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Originally Posted by L0LWAT

Subsidized and unsubsidized student loans have limits, then private student loans do not.

you have to qualify for these loans and you have to be in grad school to get anywhere near 50k. your point is not grounded in reality and therefore not a valid point

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04-16-2024 , 03:38 PM

#53

L0LWAT

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Originally Posted by PointlessWords

you have to qualify for these loans and you have to be in grad school to get anywhere near 50k. your point is not grounded in reality and therefore not a valid point

In my experience banks will give gladly give you as much rope as you want to hang yourself. I don't think it would be difficult for an undergrad to apply for and get >$50k per semester if they enrolled at an expensive school. Whatever you think the magic number is, you can take that number and leave the US. It's not stretching reality at all. Just doesn't jive with whatever you pulled from your ass.

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04-16-2024 , 04:21 PM

#54

PointlessWords

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Originally Posted by L0LWAT

You’re wrong. You could pay the school a bunch in tuition but you won’t get that money. I’m in grad school. And I’ve gotten lots of loans. Have you?

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04-17-2024 , 09:01 AM

#55

L0LWAT

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Originally Posted by PointlessWords

You’re wrong. You could pay the school a bunch in tuition but you won’t get that money. I’m in grad school. And I’ve gotten lots of loans. Have you?

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You're tilted or something. It's possible to get loans. Undergrads can easily get $20-30k annually subsidized + unsubsidized. They also have access to private loans -- as much as banks will give them. That's $13k per semester for first year undergrad guaranteed plus whatever private they can get, so easily $20k per semester for first year undergrad not trying to game the system. Though we're discussing a scenario where a person is intentionally trying to scam the system.

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04-17-2024 , 09:11 AM

#56

PointlessWords

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Originally Posted by L0LWAT

So freshman can get $20k in their pocket in loans? They can’t easily get $13k a semester in their pocket. You’re making things up and you’re wrong

When’s the last time you took out a student loan?

I tried to get private student loans as a freshman and I had savings, credit and income. Didn’t work

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04-17-2024 , 09:20 AM

#57

grizy

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Originally Posted by Trakk

Dude campaigned explicitly on Leninist and Maoist ideals of converting Cambodia to an agrarian Utopian. He's the ultimate communist.

The Khmer Rouge undoubtedly had strong ethnic cleansing (genocidal if you will) dimensions. The Khmer agrarian society Pol Pot and his cronies envisioned had little room for ethnic minorities in Cambodia.

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04-17-2024 , 10:17 AM

#58

Luciom

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Originally Posted by grizy

And the khmers were financed by Mao China.

And some people were actually convicted of genocide decades later, of cambodian muslims and of ethnic vietnamese in cambodia.

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04-17-2024 , 11:53 AM

#59

PointlessWords

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Originally Posted by grizy

Where did he get his communist training from?

Sounds to me like he was a liar and a manipulator, not a scholar that tried communism and had it fail

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04-17-2024 , 01:06 PM

#60

Luciom

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Originally Posted by PointlessWords

Where did he get his communist training from?

Sounds to me like he was a liar and a manipulator, not a scholar that tried communism and had it fail

Lol Pol Pot was from money, studied in Paris and joing paris communists in his late 20s. He studied communist books, discussed them, freaking organized "bible groups"-like event to discuss communist texts (Le Cercle Marxiste).

Even while coming from money, and reaching France on a scolarship though, he wasn't good enough to pass exams so he had to drop out there. He wasn't qualified for public school but became a private school teacher for years when back in Cambodia.

He is the most communist intelligentsia person possible: a failed upper-middle class intellectual mediocrity full of envy and anger at society.

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04-17-2024 , 05:09 PM

#61

Trakk

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Originally Posted by grizy

I certainly agree that he self identified as a communist. It’s just that I don’t think what actually happened was a reasonable attempt at implementing communism. It was just total madness. I’m not a communist at all, but no other attempts at communism have been as insanely evil as the Khmer Rouge.

Ethnic minorities were indeed specifically targeted but most of the victims weren’t from ethnic minorities. I guess it technically should be classed as genocide, but it’s a very unusual type of genocide.

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04-17-2024 , 05:57 PM

#62

grizy

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Lenin's Red Terror and Mao's Cultural Revolution were not much saner. Laotian communist party committed genocide against the Hmong.

Stalin had an en-core with a special genocide against the Crimeans.

They all explicitly embraced the insanity as a necessary part of communism.

Not true communists I guess.

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04-21-2024 , 09:38 PM

#63

The Horror

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Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 260

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Originally Posted by Luciom

Imagine not using the word communist or marxist anywhere in the description lol

Marxism and communism don't have to be genocidal.

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

I've never paid a dollar on my student loans.

Same here

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Originally Posted by grizy

Obama campaigned as an antiwar candidate and surged in Afghanistan. Bush 41 campaigned for no new taxes and raised taxes when he had to. It's rare that someone governs on the ideals they use to sell themselves.

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04-21-2024 , 09:48 PM

#64

The Horror

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I don't care what the worst genocide has been, so I've never really thought about it. I just know that there's a very clear literal definition of it and that being a multi-generational victim of it doesn't excuse committing it.

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04-24-2024 , 12:38 PM

#65

Dunyain

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https://hindugenocide.com/islamic-ji...ts-by-1500-ad/

This isn't something western history spends a lot of time on; but the initial Muslim conquests of India were numerically possibly the deadliest centuries spanning genocides in world history.

FWIW this happened before the Mughals, who were regarded as very tolerant and cosmopolitan (at least for their time). But before that it was a very brutal genocidal bloodbath.

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04-24-2024 , 02:39 PM

#66

PointlessWords

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04-24-2024 , 11:30 PM

#67

Dunyain

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Originally Posted by PointlessWords

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Turks and Russians really putting in work.

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04-26-2024 , 04:50 PM

#68

Luciom

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Originally Posted by PointlessWords

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This isn't a terrible source I guess, but missing the "great leap forward" which was bigger than every other genocide (in absolute terms) is quite a glaring omission.

Midrange estimates are at 35m Chinese people assassinated by actual Marxist policies.

Otoh Gaza "genocide" looks like mortality rate for COVID for the healthy 18y old.

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