Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Fringe conspiracy containment thread

09-03-2023 , 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1&onlybillyshears
If you can demonstrate potential ambiguity about the term in this context I will be happy to define terms. Otherwise I think my statement illustrates your fallacy.

Or else you are genuinely unaware of the meaning. In which case I am happy to oblige.
I obviously know what the term means. I don't know what are referring to as a false dichotomy.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1&onlybillyshears
No. But quantum mechanics at the cutting edge requires data analysis skills far beyond climate charts, we can therefore assume he is sufficiently versed.
Okay, I'll bite. What type of data analysis skills are used in quantum physics and when are they required?
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
I obviously know what the term means. I don't know what are referring to as a false dichotomy.
a) Immediate existential threat
b) No warming due to human beings

If "overwhelming majority" do not believe (b) they do not necessarily believe (a). Clauser's point is the hype around the "existential threat" is faked. This does not equate to 'climate change denial', which is a blunt tool against a man of his calibre that he cannot pass what is essentially GCSE geography in interpreting climate data.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1&onlybillyshears
a) Immediate existential threat
b) No warming due to human beings

If "overwhelming majority" do not believe (b) they do not necessarily believe (a). Clauser's point is the hype around the "existential threat" is faked. This does not equate to 'climate change denial', which is a blunt tool against a man of his calibre that he cannot pass what is essentially GCSE geography in interpreting climate data.
Where did I claim that Clauser believed that humans were having no impact at all on the climate?
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
Okay, I'll bite. What type of data analysis skills are used in quantum physics and when are they required?
An attempt to read a paper by Clauser, Zeilinger et al will demonstrate the level of statistical analysis required. As opposed to interpreting a line graph.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
Where did I claim that Clauser believed that humans were having no impact at all on the climate?
You said I disbelieve the overwhelming majority of climate scientists and others, but believe Clauser, implying the overwhelming majority believe in immediate existential threat. But they do not. There is a range of opinion, some influenced monetarily as funding trails show. The extent to which Clauser believes human beings influence climate is non-zero, but negligible.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 03:28 PM
How does climate work on a flat Earth? Do the clouds and other weather fall off the edges? Thanks in advance.

All the best.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1&onlybillyshears
You said I disbelieve the overwhelming majority of climate scientists and others, but believe Clauser, implying the overwhelming majority believe in immediate existential threat. But they do not. There is a range of opinion, some influenced monetarily as funding trails show. The extent to which Clauser believes human beings influence climate is non-zero, but negligible.
The overwhelming majority of climatologists (and non-climatologists) do believe that action should be taken now to address human impact on the climate. What is your basis for believing otherwise?
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 05:33 PM
Yup .
The science saying climate change isn’t a thing represent like 0.03 of all science papers .

So in one instance covid at less than 1% death rate is meaningless , no need vaccine (or the chance of dying from a vaccine is les then 1% )
Switch to climate changes with less than 1% of paper says climate changes is mostly natural and non dangerous , and that same % percentage that was meaningless for covid becomes the holy grail of truth in climate changes….

Makes no sense to me how they think science works like that .

Last edited by Montrealcorp; 09-03-2023 at 05:40 PM.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1&onlybillyshears
An attempt to read a paper by Clauser, Zeilinger et al will demonstrate the level of statistical analysis required. As opposed to interpreting a line graph.
I am not questioning the brilliance of John Clause in the field of theoretical quantum physics. I was completely unaware that such a field uses mass data and data analysis. Your non-answer makes me believe this field doesn't actually involve data analysis.

Seems like your argument is that because he is smart in one area he must be smart in all areas, or at least the area you agree with his opinion on climate change.

So, if he does not regularly engage in mass data analysis, what expertise would he have in a field where data analysis is an integral feature of the work the experts perform?
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-03-2023 , 07:01 PM
I know a great electrician guy .
Probably I will ask for knee surgery from him soon .
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
I am not questioning the brilliance of John Clause in the field of theoretical quantum physics. I was completely unaware that such a field uses mass data and data analysis. Your non-answer makes me believe this field doesn't actually involve data analysis.
It's not really called quantum mechanics (that's so general as to be useless as it essentially describes 90% of modern physics research) but experimental high energy/particle physics is one of the most data intensive research fields you can go into. But it's quite different I imagine, from the data analysis climate scientists need to do. Not that there is any difference between what climate scientists and the high energy physics community think about climate change.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 03:09 PM
I think Donald Trump knows the muffin man.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
The overwhelming majority of climatologists (and non-climatologists) do believe that action should be taken now to address human impact on the climate. What is your basis for believing otherwise?
There is little point in citing the information. It is available, you are presumably aware of it, and you choose to ignore it.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
Yup .
The science saying climate change isn’t a thing represent like 0.03 of all science papers .

So in one instance covid at less than 1% death rate is meaningless , no need vaccine (or the chance of dying from a vaccine is les then 1% )
Switch to climate changes with less than 1% of paper says climate changes is mostly natural and non dangerous , and that same % percentage that was meaningless for covid becomes the holy grail of truth in climate changes….

Makes no sense to me how they think science works like that .
There is no science saying anything about this. Where is the experiment?
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte
It's not really called quantum mechanics (that's so general as to be useless as it essentially describes 90% of modern physics research) but experimental high energy/particle physics is one of the most data intensive research fields you can go into. But it's quite different I imagine, from the data analysis climate scientists need to do. Not that there is any difference between what climate scientists and the high energy physics community think about climate change.
Line graphs tho. Climate change (as in the existential crisis) is debunked with a level of acumen most ordinary people are capable of.

There is obviously a difference with the guy in question, presumably he is not part of "the community", or "the groupthink" perhaps.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 04:13 PM
Fringe conspiracy until it wasn't.

Roundup, Montesanto bought scientist and institutions.

Quote:

CASE STUDY: MONSANTO GHOST-WRITING AND FUNDING SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH


Court proceedings have shown how the agrochemical and agricultural biotechnology giant Monsanto was involved in manipulating scientific research linked to its herbicide ‘Roundup’, revealing how companies seek to influence academic publications to their advantage.

Photo: Akshay Chauhan, Unsplash, CC0
As of early 2019, more than 13,000 plaintiffs had brought cases against Monsanto in the US courts, claiming that the herbicide Roundup had caused non-Hodgkin lymphoma in themselves or their loved ones.[1] As a result of this litigation, Monsanto was forced to release millions of pages of internal documents.[2]

Dubbed ‘The Monsanto Papers’, these documents reveal active involvement in silencing researchers whose results were not in Monsanto’s best interests. This includes pressuring a public institution to end its cooperation with a respected medical researcher who had shown the harmful impacts of glyphosate products such as Roundup, and silencing scientists funded by Monsanto when they discovered the genotoxicity of glyphosate, stopping them from publishing their results, and signing secrecy agreements with these scientists.[3]

Monsanto employees also explicitly used the term ‘ghost-write’ in the email trail. The correspondence described situations in which Monsanto employed scientists to write certain articles. However, scientists who were not publicly affiliated with Monsanto would then be credited as the official ‘authors’ of the publications. Among these ghost-written publications is a piece by Williams et al. that has been repeatedly referenced as proof that glyphosate (Roundup) is non-carcinogenic.[4]

In addition to ghost-written pieces,
other authors who had ties to Monsanto have failed to disclose conflicts of interests.[5] For example, a review of glyphosate in the Critical Reviews in Toxicology declared that “Neither any Monsanto company employees nor any attorneys reviewed any of the Expert Panel’s manuscripts prior to submission to the journal”.[6] However, emails released as part of the court proceedings reveal that “Monsanto was engaged in organizing, reviewing, and editing the drafts, even arguing with one of the authors and overruling him about language in the manuscript”.[7]

In March 2019, a California court found that Roundup was a factor in causing a man’s non-Hodgkin lymphoma and awarded over $80 million in damages to the plaintiff. In May 2019, a Californian couple was awarded $2 billion in damages for the same reason.[8] In both cases, Bayer, the German pharmaceutical company that bought Monsanto in 2018, declared its disappointment with the verdicts and announced it would appeal against the verdict.[9]

[1] Lyanne Melendez and Kate Larsen, “Monsanto Verdict: Jury awards $2 billion to Livermore couple who says Roundup caused cancer”, ABC7 News, May 14, 2019, https://abc7news.com/5298404/ (accessed October 23, 2019).

[2] Danny Hakim, “Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents”, The New York Times, March 14, 2017, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/b...y-lawsuit.html (accessed October 23, 2019).

[3] “Spinning Science & Silencing Scientists: A Case Study in How the Chemical Industry Attempts to Influence Science,” Minority Staff Report Prepared for the Members of the Committee on Science, Space & Technology (Washington, DC: U.S. House of Representatives, 2018), p. 18, https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/pdf/m...scientists.pdf (accessed October 23, 2019).

[4] Sheldon Krimsky and Carey Gillam, “Roundup Litigation Discovery Documents: Implications for Public Health and Journal Ethics,” Journal of Public Health Policy 39, no. 3 (August 2018): p. 318–26, https://doi.org/10.1057/s41271-018-0134-z (accessed October 23, 2019).

[5] van Teeffelen, Jasper, and Roeline Knottnerus. “Een Giftige Lobby?” Lobbywatch Nederland, November 2016, https://lobbywatch.nl/wp-content/upl...ch_online2.pdf. (accessed June 2, 2020)

[6] Krimsky and Gillam, p. 321.

[7] Krimski and Gillam, p. 321.

[8] Julia Jacobs, “Monsanto Ordered to Pay $80 Million in Roundup Cancer Case”, The New York Times, March 28, 2019, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/u...a-verdict.html (accessed October 23, 2019); Melendez and Larsen.

[9] Melendez and Larsen.


Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 04:15 PM
Donald trump could walk down drury lane, shoot someone, and he wouldn't lose any voters. It's incredible.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1&onlybillyshears
Line graphs tho.

It's not the world that is this simple.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 04:18 PM
https://www.mindthegap.ngo/harmful-s...ing%20research.

Quote:

MANIPULATING SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH
Last updated: 7th July 2020
A demonstrated method employed by corporations to obfuscate facts and avoid responsibility is the manipulation of academic research. Manipulation of research can take the form of misrepresenting the results of research that were otherwise unbiased, or hiring researchers who fail to disclose a conflict of interest and produce research that contradicts conventional wisdom.


CASE STUDY: Monsanto ghost-writing and funding scientific research
The most famous example of this strategy is the long-running campaign by tobacco companies to discredit claims that cigarettes are unhealthy by hiring their own scientists to produce highly biased and/or misleading research. Fossil fuel, chemical and pharmaceutical companies have adopted similar tactics in campaigns to evade responsibility for harms, by clouding public and political opinion with inaccurate research.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1&onlybillyshears
Line graphs tho. Climate change (as in the existential crisis) is debunked with a level of acumen most ordinary people are capable of.

There is obviously a difference with the guy in question, presumably he is not part of "the community", or "the groupthink" perhaps.
Sorry for the derail.

You have to be in the community and you can't speak against the consensus, yeah. or you get blackmailed and your funding gets frozen. look for honest scientists who tell you exactly that.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1&onlybillyshears
There is no science saying anything about this. Where is the experiment?
[QUOTE=Montrealcorp;58240353]https://www.usnews.com/news/politics...ent%20accurate.

Quote:
Evidence that humans have caused global warming has reached the "gold standard" level of certainty, scientists said Monday.

“A study published Monday in the journal "Nature Climate Change" stated that "humanity cannot afford to ignore" the rising temperatures over the past four decades. According to Reuters, the authors wrote that the confidence level that human activities are causing temperatures to rise reached a five-sigma level. Sigma levels are statistical measurements that gauge how certain results are. Level five indicates that the researchers' conclusions are more than 99.7 percent accurate. It's known as the "gold standard."”
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-04-2023 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1&onlybillyshears
There is no science saying anything about this. Where is the experiment?
Here one example

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...D%20IOPscience

“ Greater than 99% consensus on human caused climate change in the peer-reviewed scientific literature - IOPscience”

“ From a dataset of 88125 climate-related papers published since 2012, when this question was last addressed comprehensively, we examine a randomized subset of 3000 such publications. We also use a second sample-weighted approach that was specifically biased with keywords to help identify any sceptical peer-reviewed papers in the whole dataset. We identify four sceptical papers out of the sub-set of 3000, as evidenced by abstracts that were rated as implicitly or explicitly sceptical of human-caused global warming. ”

That’s the side you are one .
4 reviewed! papers on 3000 .
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-06-2023 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunyain
Almost a month since the Lahaina wildfires, and we still dont have a clue about the human death toll or any real media investigation into the institutional failures that occurred that lead to this.

It really looks like the media and establishment are conspiring to keep news suppressed as much as possible. I think they are sensitive to how much this is an institutional failure of Democratic governance, and they dont want this to come back to the President or other members of the party leading up to 2024.

Compare this to tragedies that happen in red states, where there is a major coverage of the tragedy and investigative focus on the governance failures that lead to the outcome. And of course the human death toll in red state catastrophes is highlighted at every opportunity instead of being suppressed.
You will never hear about that again in the media, just like the Paradise, CA fire, and the toxic train derailment in OH. I have first hand information (there's also a lot of testimony to this on yt) that there's upwards of 2K children missing and unaccounted for, and still no explanation given regarding why they trapped people to their deaths. Eric West, the realtor who was able to broadcast live from there in the aftermath with his Starlink Satellite system was arrested for "violating an emergency proclamation" by showing video and pictures of the damage and he has to appear in court next month.

They also refuse to cover the real news about all the evidence coming out against Biden being bought out by outside foreign influences. Not one peep, but the media is programming everyone to believe Trump's issues are much more serious than a country and world being taken over by a communistic foreign influence (with evidence). This is how communism works, they take control of the media.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote
09-06-2023 , 04:02 PM
The east Palestine train wreck and lawsuit is in the news every day here, so, as usual, you don’t know wtfyata.
Fringe conspiracy containment thread Quote

      
m