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Free Speech (taken from Trans thread) Free Speech (taken from Trans thread)

06-05-2022 , 10:33 PM
Yeah, that seems like a made up thing when you look back at how conformist you had to be to get a university job in the past
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06-06-2022 , 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by washoe
And here! I haven't watched it yet but like the titles.
I'm curious what the purpose of these posts even is. Again and again people suggest that spamming videos isn't helpful, and now you're doing it with videos you haven't even watched "but like the titles".

Why should anyone even bother engaging with you, when you seem to have no interest in listening or discussing? Here are the last two replies I got from you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by washoe
That's a really good post. I want to answer but can't it's so late here. Maybe we wait till tomorrow and see what cuepee comes back with. And let it sink. Yes it's that rufo guy! Wtf? Whats he saying there? And you telling me it's an old hat that luckbox chewed on before and a thousand other posters lol is kinda hilarious.

I am debating now if it's a good thing to call a math test racist or not. It might be it might be not bobo, idk.

This guy says no, im leaning no, and I'm assuming cuepee leans no as well but let's see.

A math test is racist bobo. Wtf? Lol
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Originally Posted by washoe
Washoe needs to sleep now. So he can't answer you in great detail.

Washoe was just playing with the idea Hillary as president and then he pictured that dumb arrogant look on her face. And said no. Wouldn't be so anti Bernie but no way would be fine with Hillary.

And then he pictured poor factory workers working all day and night for some fat westerners. (They have the highest suicide rate now, topping western nations and that is a recent development!) And then he thought of dying detroit and crazy L.A.. And then he thought about trump not playing into chinas hands. And probably having this war under control by now and definitely not outsourcing and exploiting poor third and developing countries the way as we do now, but start building some own ****. And enough with this inflation. My favourite meal is double the price now, not that I care too much, just to give you an example. Enough with the bullshit good night!
And then crickets on anything further, but now you're back spamming Youtoooobs from Jordan ****ing Peterson.

With every post you make, these assessments seem more and more accurate:

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Originally Posted by Rococo
washoe is the perfect target target for right wing disinformation. He spends his entire life on the internet. He has no ability to distinguish reliable sources from unreliable sources. And he is intellectually disposed to believe almost anything.
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Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
Its amazing to have someone who has had every thought and his entire world point of view literally taken straight off the shelf of opinion forming apparatus and put straight into his head lecture everyone else about the nature of said apparatus.

Washoe is just a complete middle man, a medium through which propaganda flows unchanged and unchallenged.
washoe, I worry that you're falling down a rather dark rabbit hole. If you really want to find some "villains" that are behind whatever you don't like about your lot in life, the internet will be more than happy to supply them. Every. single. time. But Googling for things that confirm your preconceived notions isn't research, and it isn't doing you any good.
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06-06-2022 , 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by uke_master
I don't disagree that university professors are in general more left leaning than the general public.
Anyone interesting in going down a rabbit hole, read this paper. Peer reviewed and authored by some big hitters in social psychology.

Political diversity will improve social psychological science

Anyway, the main point of posting this is to highlight that the ratio of left:right leaning in psychology professors is 14:1. You will find similar ratios to this across social sciences and humanities.

The problem is far worse than just "left-leaning".
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06-06-2022 , 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
Anyone interesting in going down a rabbit hole, read this paper. Peer reviewed and authored by some big hitters in social psychology.

Political diversity will improve social psychological science

Anyway, the main point of posting this is to highlight that the ratio of left:right leaning in psychology professors is 14:1. You will find similar ratios to this across social sciences and humanities.

The problem is far worse than just "left-leaning".
According to a friend of mine (who has a Ph.D. in Philosophy), every full-time professor in the Philosophy department at the Cal State school he was teaching at is a Marxist Atheist.
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06-06-2022 , 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
According to a friend of mine (who has a Ph.D. in Philosophy), every full-time professor in the Philosophy department at the Cal State school he was teaching at is a Marxist Atheist.
I can believe that. The oft quoted number of self-proclaimed Marxists in the social sciences is ~20%. However, there are going to be some departments that are silos for this nonsense, while other departments who are little to no more than the population average.
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06-06-2022 , 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
I can believe that. The oft quoted number of self-proclaimed Marxists in the social sciences is ~20%. However, there are going to be some departments that are silos for this nonsense, while other departments who are little to no more than the population average.
My graduate advisor at this same school and department (but over 35 years earlier) was a Marxist.

A few years after my graduation, and shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union, that advisor gave a colloquium talk titled (going from memory here), Marxism: A Sympathetic Autopsy.

Last edited by lagtight; 06-06-2022 at 08:20 AM. Reason: heavy stylistic editing
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06-06-2022 , 08:41 AM
I've never met a real life Marxist in my life
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06-06-2022 , 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
According to a friend of mine (who has a Ph.D. in Philosophy), every full-time professor in the Philosophy department at the Cal State school he was teaching at is a Marxist Atheist.
Given marxism has had the absolute philosophical **** kicked out of it because lol Hegel and Hegel is absolutely and completely been moved to the position of no one is Hegelian anymore, I really doubt this is even remotely close to true. Without Hegel its impossible to be anything close to a classical Marxist.

However what has happened to much contemporary critical theory is that it is judged as Marxism by the uninformed because it sounds radical and has lots of big words that no one else uses. Also Joe blow lives in dumbed down binary narrative environment where radicalism = marxim/ capitalism. Where as its very possible to be very radical in a post marxist way. So its very possible the professors are very anti capitalistic.

So cliffs is virulently anti capital view points often get mislabelled as Marxist. They are probably closer to a classical anarchist position.

Jordan Peterson is probably the poster boy for this, his diatribes on why post modernism = marxism are the classic example of why people should stick to their field as he whiffs his analysis on such completely.

Last edited by O.A.F.K.1.1; 06-06-2022 at 09:17 AM.
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06-06-2022 , 09:44 AM
Somehow Marxism never once got mentioned when I was in college.
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06-06-2022 , 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
I can believe that. The oft quoted number of self-proclaimed Marxists in the social sciences is ~20%. However, there are going to be some departments that are silos for this nonsense, while other departments who are little to no more than the population average.
Is it not pretty much accepted if you hold Marxist or strong anti-capitalist views you will pretty much have to seek employment in academia or no where else? At least no where else where your views will be a part of any discussions. you are not going to find many other Marxist types in corporate America, for good reason and as such academia becomes significantly over represented by that group and once they create an echo chamber they make it hostile and unwelcome for others views to co-exist.

The articles above discuss that. Harassment and violence campaigns on top of putting jobs and risk and reputations, if individuals try to push dialogue in to the town square that does not stay with the 'allowed bounds' the far left establishes as what is tolerable. And most often the targets of the far left cancel culture is not the far right but the more independant and centre left. The more disengages liberal person who is sent a strong message that unless you want to deal with the types of lies and smears we will make against you, you should learn to just stay silent.

I think that is the biggest impact of all, as supported by those articles, is that this bullying tactic works, making the extreme left voice, all too often the only one now in the town square on the left side of the discussions.

Thus why Bill Maher rightly says things too often sound like "Onion Headlines".
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06-06-2022 , 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Somehow Marxism never once got mentioned when I was in college.
That you could notice Trolly. That you could NOTICE.

Members of the echo bubble, you are naturally sympatico with, are not the ones who can see they are in it.

What I say there is not controversial at all, and near universally accepted. I think your only reply would be 'not me... them' as all groups who exist in echo bubbles do.
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06-06-2022 , 10:04 AM
I wish I could find the quote but I'm fairly sure it was a tory MP who decades ago moaned 'why are all the clever people left wing?'
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06-06-2022 , 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Cuepee
That you could notice Trolly. That you could NOTICE.

Members of the echo bubble, you are naturally sympatico with, are not the ones who can see they are in it.

What I say there is not controversial at all, and near universally accepted. I think your only reply would be 'not me... them' as all groups who exist in echo bubbles do.
lol the Marxism is so sneaky it’s almost like it’s not even there! You’d think my Russian lit class would have indoctrinated me but all I learned there was how dueling worked.
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06-06-2022 , 10:23 AM
That you are an exemplar for the worst of the far left tactics while at the same time, like uke saying, "I never saw any of it', is either just this amazing coincidence, that perhaps you guys were amongst the worst within your peer circles or you were blind to it because you will not see what you are.
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06-06-2022 , 10:25 AM
The most pertinent critique of Marx actually come from the left as the actually read it, engage with it with full intellectual honesty and don't just see the word Marx and jump to a million incorrect assumptions.
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06-06-2022 , 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
Given marxism has had the absolute philosophical **** kicked out of it because lol Hegel and Hegel is absolutely and completely been moved to the position of no one is Hegelian anymore, I really doubt this is even remotely close to true. Without Hegel its impossible to be anything close to a classical Marxist.

However what has happened to much contemporary critical theory is that it is judged as Marxism by the uninformed because it sounds radical and has lots of big words that no one else uses. Also Joe blow lives in dumbed down binary narrative environment where radicalism = marxim/ capitalism. Where as its very possible to be very radical in a post marxist way. So its very possible the professors are very anti capitalistic.

So cliffs is virulently anti capital view points often get mislabelled as Marxist. They are probably closer to a classical anarchist position.

Jordan Peterson is probably the poster boy for this, his diatribes on why post modernism = marxism are the classic example of why people should stick to their field as he whiffs his analysis on such completely.
I don't disagree with any of this, but you're making the false equivalence that because post modernism =/= marxism, this means that post modernists can't be marxists.
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06-06-2022 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
Is it not pretty much accepted if you hold Marxist or strong anti-capitalist views you will pretty much have to seek employment in academia or no where else? At least no where else where your views will be a part of any discussions. you are not going to find many other Marxist types in corporate America, for good reason and as such academia becomes significantly over represented by that group and once they create an echo chamber they make it hostile and unwelcome for others views to co-exist.
Maybe, idk. These types by definition think power is the answer to everything, and if knowledge = power then if I go work in knowledge then I'll get power.
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06-06-2022 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
I don't disagree with any of this, but you're making the false equivalence that because post modernism =/= marxism, this means that post modernists can't be marxists.
Its hard for a post modernist to a modernist.

There is nothing more modernist than classical marxism.

Post modernists can be neo marxists to some degree, but that phrase/definition is near useless without knowing details.
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06-06-2022 , 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Cuepee
which is very different than the selection boards set up today, to both prescreen and select out anyone who does not fit the allowed 'one line of allowable thought'
No, it isn't. The idea of a centralized group of college groups who book comedians at a single event has been happening for decades (See the HBO series "Crashing" for a look at this exact thing.)

NACA has been around since the 1960s. They book entertainment for campus events, including comedians. They have always had specific standards for specific types of comedy that they want at different campuses. Some allow more edgy stuff, some don't allow more edgy content. If you want to be booked at the widest variety of campuses, you tailor your set specifically for that reason. This has been happening for decades.
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06-06-2022 , 10:45 AM
If student and academics politics doesn't have a great slice of marxism in it then there's something very seriously wrong.

Same with the left in general.
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06-06-2022 , 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lagtight
If those billboards are real, then it's now official:

Civilization is at a point of no-return.
Attempting to lessen overdose deaths is the end of civilization?
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06-06-2022 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
That you are an exemplar for the worst of the far left tactics while at the same time, like uke saying, "I never saw any of it', is either just this amazing coincidence, that perhaps you guys were amongst the worst within your peer circles or you were blind to it because you will not see what you are.
lol, Marx never got mentioned once aside from high school history classes. I acquired my leftish politics outside of class.
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06-06-2022 , 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Cuepee
I agree with street level campaigns that target the most vulnerable and do the types of 'harm reduction techniques' you are speaking to, such as needle exchange, etc.

I do not, however think taking out giant billboards to advertise these things is targeting that street level person at all. I do not think they are the ones reading them, nor do they have any impact.

Those billboards ARE NOT targeted at the community that needs the help, and are a waste of money and resources which could be far better spend on more street level harm reduction and outreach.

These campaigns, intended or not, are doing what we prohibited the smoking industry from doing with their more veiled campaigned to socialize smoking.

The cigarette industry would love to mirror those 3 billboards with language they could 'say' was trying to deter people from smoking and get them to not to engage and be able to use words like:

- change it up
- do it with friends
- be empowered, not ashamed

while stating their goal is to reduce smoking.


We would all see thru it though, with regards to big tobacco and not allow it. Similarly we had such clarity when it came to simply the image of a waif thin model who was actually fit and healthy and how that impact others, especially young girls to normalize it and set unhealthy body images and yet when morbidly obese Tess Holiday is put on the cover of the same magazines and celebrated as 'Healthy at Any Size', somehow it is the 'Left' who then defend it and those on the left who do not, already know their place and to shut up and just not comment, knowing the more radical elements in the far left will attack and demonize them if they speak out.

If the waif imagery is harmful there should be no denying the morbidly obese imagery is harmful, and yet here we are that someone like me has to be 'brave' and willing to be an outcast to say it and those who quietly agree with me will stay mostly silent but try to find some tangential way to agree with the far left attackers to signal they are generally on the same side.

In today's society the far left rules discussion and there is no denying the more centre left has been cowed by them into just opting for silence and that has become very dangerous as we only have the far left and the far right driving discussions more and more often now.
There generally a lot of nicotine overdose deaths? Cause if not, your analogy is ****.
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06-06-2022 , 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
No, it isn't. The idea of a centralized group of college groups who book comedians at a single event has been happening for decades (See the HBO series "Crashing" for a look at this exact thing.)

NACA has been around since the 1960s. They book entertainment for campus events, including comedians. They have always had specific standards for specific types of comedy that they want at different campuses. Some allow more edgy stuff, some don't allow more edgy content. If you want to be booked at the widest variety of campuses, you tailor your set specifically for that reason. This has been happening for decades.
Restricting 'edgy content' =/= today's partisan line drawing where comedy is told to conform within certain ideological beliefs only or it is not welcome. Conflating these things does not serve you well.

You could be told to this is the boundary of 'edgy' you can go to, but that did not typically include them pushing it to be just right wing talking [points or left wing talking points only.

Quite the opposite actually. If a bunch of comedians were entering a right wing bastion, you could expect many jokes targeting just that group, very deliberately. Making fun of their extremes and their sensitivities.

This is exactly what todays left does not want and actively cancels in advance.
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06-06-2022 , 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
lol, Marx never got mentioned once aside from high school history classes. I acquired my leftish politics outside of class.
I love that you think Marx has to be directly referenced or 'it did not happen'. You sound like the far right who say if the words 'I am not racist' are not directly said, nothing in their communications is racist.

Sadly this is where we live now with BOTH SIDES playing the same game, while both saying they do not play it but the other guy does. You ARE the reason for the far right Trolly just as they are the reason for you. You both feed each other and provide cover by using the same disingenuous argumentation tactics.

"Never got mentioned THAT YOU COULD DISCERN...."

FYP.
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