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ex-President Trump ex-President Trump

04-12-2020 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Antibiotics: why asking doctors to prescribe fewer is futile

An 85-year-old woman with dementia is admitted to hospital with worsening confusion, new urinary incontinence and constipation. These symptoms suggest a urinary tract infection, but the doctor treating her has a dilemma because the symptoms also suggest her dementia may be worsening or she has simple constipation. Sending a sample to a lab for analysis could confirm bacteria in the urine, but getting a result takes days, so the doctor decides to play it safe and prescribe antibiotics.

Scenes like that are repeated every day in hospitals around the world, and they are leading to excessive and often unnecessary antibiotic use....
What we proved is that antibiotic prescribing supports the idea that resources that don’t clearly belong to an individual or a group are likely to be overexploited (known as “the tragedy of the commons”). In fact, healthcare professionals have suspected this for some time, but it had not been rigorously proved until now.

What it implies is that if doctors act in the best interests of their own patients, then prescribing antibiotics whenever a bacterial infection is suspected is always the preferred treatment, irrespective of whether other doctors are doing the same. What makes it a tragedy of the commons is that if all doctors adopt this strategy, then the outcome is worse for themselves and their patients than if they all exercised restraint.
Was Kelhus likely a little hyperbolic to suggest that "most" doctors act this way? Idk but probably. The number of overprescribed antibiotics in the studies seem to range from 20-50%. So "most doctors" is at the high end. All of your reactions though haven't been very nuanced at all when there seems be a decent amount of truth to Kelhus's argument. (But that's probably because we're in the Trump thread).


Yeah retracing the whole conversation it's clear where the cronies have been contorting. And it is actually productive because because you guys are all smart people who know that anti-biotics are over prescribed. That shouldn't be news to anyone here. But because we're in the Trump thread if Kelhus suggests it then lol him.
Your anecdote doesn't line up with Kelhus's original claim at all. Your example is most probably bacterial infection for which antibiotics would be an appropriate therapy. Kelhus was claiming that antibiotics are routinely prescribed for what are most probably viral infections, which is bullshit.
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04-12-2020 , 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Your anecdote doesn't line up with Kelhus's original claim at all. Your example is most probably bacterial infection for which antibiotics would be an appropriate therapy. Kelhus was claiming that antibiotics are routinely prescribed for what are most probably viral infections, which is bullshit.
Mine probably was bacterial. Worst sinus infection I've ever had. Lasted for two weeks and I hacked up probably a gallon of phelgum. But I also posted actual studies too. Here is another one: Factors associated with antibiotic prescriptions for the viral origin diseases in office-based practices, 2006–2012
The analysis revealed five significant predictors of antibiotic prescriptions for suspected viral infections: length of doctor–patient encounter time, patient gender, spending time with a family medicine doctor, type of insurance, and the rate of antibiotic prescriptions per physician. For every additional minute a patient spent with a physician during a visit, the mean predicted probability of receiving unnecessary antibiotics decreased by 2.4%.

Conclusions
This study provided evidence that physicians continue to prescribe antibiotics in avoidable cases. Policies that would monitor antibiotic prescription in office-based settings should be considered in order to control spreading of antibiotic resistance and eventually improve population health...
Antibiotics are intended for diseases with bacterial origins. However, at least 75% of adults in the US seeking treatment for acute bronchitis – usually caused by a virus – are prescribed antibiotics.3 Out of 531 paediatric office visits for colds, URIs, or bronchitis, antibiotics were prescribed to 44% of patients with a common cold, to 46% with upper respiratory infections, and to 75% with bronchitis.4 According to the CDC, approximately 50% of antibiotic prescriptions written in the outpatient settings are inappropriate.
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04-12-2020 , 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
I'm not doing anything like that Dino.
1) Kelhus said doctors over prescribe antibiotics basically.
2) you guys were all like "lol you're wrong that never happens"
3) I gave an anecdote about how I was given antibiotics without even an examination by a pharmacist outside the US.
Was my anecdote relevant? Does it matter? Probably not.
Was I defending Trump? Definitely not.
Honestly it looks like the opposite and it is you guys contorting yourselves to attack him. I definitely haven't contorted myself in any way though. I haven't even made any real claims.
CDC: 33% of anti biotics scripts unnecessary
Outpatient antibiotic overprescribing rampant: Nearly half written without infection diagnosis, suggests study of 500,000-plus prescriptions
It seems like empirical research is backing Kelhus up though. Will people apologize? Probably not.
Here is the post I replied to, with bolded:

Quote:
Actually this is what most doctors do. Most of the time you have a cold and the doctor prescribes you antibiotics, they know it is likely viral and the antibiotics will do nothing, but they take this approach and prescribe them anyways.
That is unequivocally false in this country. We can talk about how antibiotics are over-prescribed in general here, but it's not related to the fact that his assumption is completely and utterly false.
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04-12-2020 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
It is a given our business overlords and their politician jesters will push everything back to normal much too soon, which will lead to a second wave of death that may even surpass the first.

Don't forget todays the day of churches being essential services in some states. Just cant see anything going wrong with crowding 300 folks in a building
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04-12-2020 , 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by epcfast
I thought 2+2 politics was finished - didn't realise it lived on - Matt must be proud of what he has created.
As someone that hasn't really read the politics forum actively since 2009, during the "ACist" era whereby posters like Tolbiny, Borodog, Tien, J.R, etc were some of the better posters, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Matt had seemingly put an end to the continued degradation of the politics forum by sending them on their way. Unfortunately it appears to have been short-lived though. After scrolling briefly through a few threads I see the same politard members funking up threads with the usual tactics and just mob posting any dissenting opinions into submissions with endless trolls, memes, and text walls.

Oh, and if TS was banned from this forum again based on the posts that are still shown (assuming nothing was deleted) then the safe space echo chamber / cess pool lives on. Matt should be proud indeed.
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04-12-2020 , 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe6pack
TDS will be studied by scientists as a genuine disease in the not too distant future, I predict.
i actually agree with this, but not the way you dummies have taken to saying it.

it will be the study of a Charles Manson like type personality cult and how a below average intelligence narcissist rose to popularity through sheer aggressive exaggerated self confidence/bluster/lying, and a large group of equally below intelligent population idolized him because he normalized the lack of leadership/personality qualities they all equally lacked.
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04-12-2020 , 05:06 PM
LOL
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04-12-2020 , 05:13 PM
it's easy to understand the entrenchment aspect that is occurring with joe. he's linked his entire self worth to this moron and he has to defend that to the death or otherwise lose his sense of self.

but the rise and worshiping of a gold spooned NYC elitist who has **** in gold toilets since he was potty trained and steals money from charities and constituents alike and who wouldn't spit or piss on joe if he was on fire as some kind of "man of the people" is interesting, and clearly the real "trump derangement syndrome"
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04-12-2020 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
I'm not doing anything like that Dino.
1) Kelhus said doctors over prescribe antibiotics basically.
Yeah, that's not what he said. That would have been unobjectionable. Try reading his post again and start over.

If you're pressed for time, Seadood228 even bolded it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
2) you guys were all like "lol you're wrong that never happens".
No one claimed it never happened. Just that it is not something most doctors do most of the time for a cold. I think someone said something along the lines that it is something that almost no doctors do. That's probably too far in the other direction, so if you want to pick a bone with that one it's fine.


Of course, if Kelhus said something different from what he actually said, and everyone responded in a way that was different from how they actually did, then your analysis is spot on!

Last edited by Melkerson; 04-12-2020 at 05:45 PM.
ex-President Trump Quote
04-12-2020 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Citation needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis+12
You have never gone to the doctor when you were sick and been prescribed antibiotics?
Upon reviewing this irrefutable citation, I can do nothing but concur.





Quote:
Originally Posted by notatrumpsupporter
Was I defending Trump? Definitely not.
Honestly it looks like the opposite and it is you guys contorting yourselves to attack him. I definitely haven't contorted myself in any way though. I haven't even made any real claims.
The only way he could be defending trump is by making claims, don't ya know.
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04-12-2020 , 06:24 PM
LB, I was responding under the impression was not being hyperbolic. If I was wrong, Kel, my bad.
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04-12-2020 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
Don't forget todays the day of churches being essential services in some states. Just cant see anything going wrong with crowding 300 folks in a building
Imagine believing your God is so petty and evil they want you to risk your life and those of all your family and friends just to praise him. God sounds a lot like Donald ****ing Trump.

I want no part of such a horrible God. If their God kills them for going to worship, sucks to be them.
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04-12-2020 , 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slighted
it's easy to understand the entrenchment aspect that is occurring with joe. he's linked his entire self worth to this moron and he has to defend that to the death or otherwise lose his sense of self.

but the rise and worshiping of a gold spooned NYC elitist who has **** in gold toilets since he was potty trained and steals money from charities and constituents alike and who wouldn't spit or piss on joe if he was on fire as some kind of "man of the people" is interesting, and clearly the real "trump derangement syndrome"
I agree he is in too deep with this persona. His fragile ego could not handle the well deserved ridicule he would receive for admitting he was wrong.

He will stick to it until the bitter end regardless as to how dumb he looks. Will be an interesting look back on the cult of Trump. Usually a cult leader has some form of high intelligence. Trump is an anomaly in that regard. He is intellectually ******ed in ever class of intelligence. I suspect a lot of it will come down to racism. A lot of us thought we were moving past blatant racism and progressing not realizing 25% of the country was seething with white hot rage for minorities.

That is definitely the trap sprung by Trump. He allowed that release valve for people and families that have been forced to hide their racism for fifty plus years. Trump was a glorious day for them and a huge unburdening. They don’t want to go back to the pressure of having to treat minorities as equals. They would rather die.
ex-President Trump Quote
04-12-2020 , 07:06 PM


Just when you think the right can't get any stupider. Now they're on a campaign to fire the one competent person in all this.

We live in an insane asylum right now - where the inmates are in control.
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04-12-2020 , 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
so they have very little difference from the Dems
I love Bernie too. I don't like most politicians but you are out of your mind if you think the dems are worse than the republicans.

Why does bernie align with the dems?
ex-President Trump Quote
04-12-2020 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slighted
it's easy to understand the entrenchment aspect that is occurring with joe. he's linked his entire self worth to this moron and he has to defend that to the death or otherwise lose his sense of self.

but the rise and worshiping of a gold spooned NYC elitist who has **** in gold toilets since he was potty trained and steals money from charities and constituents alike and who wouldn't spit or piss on joe if he was on fire as some kind of "man of the people" is interesting, and clearly the real "trump derangement syndrome"
Sadly the rest of us have to suffer because of their stupidity. Great post btw.
ex-President Trump Quote
04-12-2020 , 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slighted
it's easy to understand the entrenchment aspect that is occurring with joe. he's linked his entire self worth to this moron and he has to defend that to the death or otherwise lose his sense of self.

but the rise and worshiping of a gold spooned NYC elitist who has **** in gold toilets since he was potty trained and steals money from charities and constituents alike and who wouldn't spit or piss on joe if he was on fire as some kind of "man of the people" is interesting, and clearly the real "trump derangement syndrome"
Although I think Joe might actually be a cool guy that likes to troll us, the analysis you have is spot-on for most Trumpets, in particular the ones who started out as regular republicans.
ex-President Trump Quote
04-12-2020 , 07:28 PM
Idk how to embed videos. Could someone please do that for me?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh4uS4f78o

Last edited by barney big nuts; 04-12-2020 at 07:34 PM.
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04-12-2020 , 08:26 PM
Thank you OANN--We have got to be in the twilight zone.
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04-12-2020 , 08:35 PM
The Creature of Queens was right about his backers. For whatever reason, and I believe it is different reasons at play, they completely refuse reassessment. It is anathema to them.
ex-President Trump Quote
04-12-2020 , 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barney big nuts
Idk how to embed videos. Could someone please do that for me?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh4uS4f78o
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04-12-2020 , 10:20 PM
Just heard a psychologist refer to "regression to simplicity" as a human coping mechanism.. . which so well describes a lot of this. Think Bill O'Reilly and those who love his talking points.
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04-12-2020 , 10:33 PM


Like being infected wirh the coronavirus he's already been fired, it just won't manifest itself for another week or so.
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04-12-2020 , 11:03 PM
How have Trump, Pence, Fauci and all those others that stand up on stage every evening with no masks or social distancing not been infected - or have they???
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04-12-2020 , 11:36 PM
thanks campfirewest
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