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03-19-2024 , 12:35 PM

#38776

Gorgonian

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,836

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Of course he's talking about a literal bloodbath, are you people dumb? Have you not been paying attention?

Yes, a literal economic bloodbath.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 02:35 PM

#38777

Brian James

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 1,221

Gorgo, you've turned red. I knew you would eventually. Welcome to the MAGA club brother.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 02:57 PM

#38778

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 22,625

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

It's just standard populist stuff. He was suggesting that he would shield the domestic auto industry from competition (at least in the United States) by being the most protectionist president in recent memory.

Huh, well he isn't president now, and I haven't heard much about the US auto industry suffering recently.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 03:01 PM

#38779

biggerboat

you're gonna need one

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 49,006

It doesn't seem like an effective strategy to say "this horrible thing is going to happen" when biden wins if it hasn't happened already.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 03:57 PM

#38780

Schlitz mmmm

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 28,235

At the end of the day, fascism kills fascists.

Act up

Quote

03-19-2024 , 04:09 PM

#38781

Luciom

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 10,364

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggerboat

It doesn't seem like an effective strategy to say "this horrible thing is going to happen" when biden wins if it hasn't happened already.

It does if the claim is China is building those factories right now and will commence production shortly.

And btw those factories are really being built.

Trump isn't inventing things in this case, he is just claiming something which is going to happen will be bad.

He is wrong, if you agree with me free trade benefits both nations (the exporting and the importing one), deeply wrong if you believe the benefit is substantial as I do, but it's a different kind of wrong than when he, or others, plainly invent things that aren't happening

Quote

03-19-2024 , 04:20 PM

#38782

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,967

FWIW Even tho I think is a total d!ck , trump isn’t that wrong .
Putting tariff for fair trade to counter China cheating (by devaluing their currency) is one of the best solution there is.

China has massive debt , deflation shock and economic problems .
They would love to do so …
It’s a currency war .

Quote

03-19-2024 , 04:25 PM

#38783

Luciom

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 10,364

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

Chinese companies (and all major ones are linked to the government) are building factories IN MEXICO, so if you put tariffs those are on MEXICAN GOODS, the USDCNY currency rate has nothing to do with this at all.

Anyway ye I know actual leftists agree with Trump protectionism

Quote

03-19-2024 , 05:15 PM

#38784

Gorgonian

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,836

Driving through the northern part of a very rural US state this past weekend, and I almost spit out my drink when I saw this billboard.

I can tell you that this area is within an hour of one of the most well-known racist towns in the country (one time home to the knights of the KKK). Serious cult stuff around there. I was happy to get out of there asap.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 05:16 PM

#38785

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

It has nothing to do with left or right .
It’s about fair trades and free markets ! -> without manipulating currencies but letting free markets to speak .

China devaluing its currencies will just transfer their problems to the rest of the world .
Goods from Mexico by China is less a problem then when it’s build in China .

U.S. and China are competing on the international front too .
U can’t let China wins around the world and hurting US business by doing nothing imo .
But for now China do not seem to want to devalue …

https://apnews.com/article/china-yua...18c578c7664af4

Quote:

BEIJING (AP) — China’s yuan dipped briefly to a 16-year low against the dollar Thursday, raising questions about whether Beijing might weaken its currency to help struggling exporters and reverse a deepening economic slump.

The yuan slid to 7.32 to the dollar before recovering to 7.26 following what financial analysts said appeared to be buying by Chinese banks to support the currency. That made one yuan worth about 13.8 cents.

A weaker yuan helps exporters by making their goods cheaper abroad, but Beijing has promised to avoid “competitive devaluation.” Complaints that China gets an unfair trade advantage by keeping its yuan weak is an irritant in relations with Washington and other governments.

“Will we just continue to see a sort of gradual weakening of the currency?” said Thomas Mathews of Capital Economics. “That might be one of the key channels through which they could actually support the economy.”

I guess will see .

Quote

03-19-2024 , 05:23 PM

#38786

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 22,625

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgonian

I hope they concentrate on fixing 2020 first, instead of focusing on winning the next election.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 05:26 PM

#38787

Schlitz mmmm

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 28,235

The orange dotard has moved the window

Fascist maundering is a new norm. When he's not glitching and delivering the likes of..'antisemitism and pro--turd wah wat you doing?'

Quote

03-19-2024 , 06:23 PM

#38788

pocket_zeros

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,653

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

The USA bailed out its entire automotive industry in 2009, so arguments that china is "cheating us" with government supported currency-devaluation is one-sided. The US later went after Airbus for the same thing it itself did with the automotive industry - government financial subsidies. It's absurdly hypocritical.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 07:22 PM

#38789

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocket_zeros

bailing out an industry with subsidies and devaluing its currency for the whole world market its entirely different.
its fine if they do it, all im saying its just normal countries will raise tarrifs to counter it.
ps: and china been doing it multiple times over 2 decades...

Quote

03-19-2024 , 07:46 PM

#38790

Schlitz mmmm

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 28,235

We live plenty high on the hog. This country would benefit from some personal austerity, a little discipline and privation, and far less indulgence of all kinds

Quote

03-19-2024 , 09:00 PM

#38791

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 22,625

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

Yes, China has devalued their currencies many times, as have many other countries....and the US is still at the top economically.

If people want to sell us their stuff for cheap, I'm all for that, and I don't think it hurts the US. Protect some industries that are essential for national security, but apart from that, let the inexpensive imports come in, they can enjoy their pieces of paper.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 09:28 PM

#38792

pocket_zeros

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,653

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

I agree, they are different - if the US hadn't interfered with free markets then China wouldn't have a USA automobile industry to compete with, which hysterically we now claim they unfairly compete against.

If you think our government's interference with free markets is limited to the two recent examples I gave then you're still drinking the Kool-Aid our politicians are selling you.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 10:24 PM

#38793

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

What makes a country strong economically is not to have low prices from overseas but to actually have jobs that are profitable for everyone .

Quote

03-19-2024 , 10:28 PM

#38794

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 22,625

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

What makes a country strong economically is not to have low prices from overseas but to actually have jobs that are profitable for everyone .

The US still has plenty of jobs, with the lowest unemployment rate of any developed western nation I believe.

Personally I would prefer to be able to get cheap imports without having to work a dangerous factory job.

Quote

03-19-2024 , 10:29 PM

#38795

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocket_zeros

It’s not about politicians kook-aid it’s about how currency markets works and that have tremendous Influences on the economy .
And yes tariffs is a measure that can be used to counter this .
It isn’t about right or wrong it’s about competing on a fair basis .
You can be for or against it , doesn’t matter to me .
Currency wars is a Real thing .

Quote

03-19-2024 , 10:49 PM

#38796

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

One of the main reason there isn’t a job crisis in the U.S. is because all the baby boomers are retiring instead of going into the unemployment stats .

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/05/25/h...-39/index.html

Quote:

Additionally, the population of adults 65 and older grew nearly five times faster than the total US population in the past century, from 1920 to 2020, according to the Census data. That age group represented 16.8% of the total US population in 2020.

There is growing concern about what the public health needs of an aging population will look like.

“The US population is indeed getting older and we are unprepared to handle their growing needs for health, habilitative and rehabilitative care in community settings,” Dr. Georges Benjamin, executive director of the American Public Health Association, said in an email Thursday. “This demographic shift is uneven and requires sound planning if we are going to ensure the capacity to protect and ensure public health as our demographics change.”

Yes that is why debts is exploding in the US ….
Economic growth and wealth isnt spur by buying stuff cheap from overseas .
It’s by actually creating and producing goods and services , people earning wages , etc .

Quote

03-19-2024 , 11:42 PM

#38797

pocket_zeros

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,653

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

Not sure why you believe manipulation of currency is any worse than the other methods governments use to manipulate markets. And if you don't think we manipulate our own currency for economic reasons you should look into the Federal Reserve.

Quote

03-20-2024 , 02:11 AM

#38798

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocket_zeros

Again I’m not saying it’s right or wrong or who’s best or not…..
China been playing with their currencies for decades and the rest of the world didn’t do much because China wasn’t a big threat on many front and they only saw profits for their political contributors probably .

But the macro situation in 2024 is vastly different on many level and so using tariffs to counter currency manipulation is just a tool that can be used against China today !
It’s perfectly viable and efficient strategy .

Quote

03-20-2024 , 02:20 AM

#38799

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,967

FWIW PZ, there have been a currency war for over 2 decades , a race to the bottom for currencies , trying to win market shares .

And when that happens it’s always the median and lower band of workers that pay the prices.

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what...cy-war-3306262

Last edited by Montrealcorp; 03-20-2024 at 02:30 AM.