“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by,” Trump said.
The Proud Boys took Trump’s words as a signal of approval:
The extremist group’s members reportedly called it “historic”
and viewed it as an endorsement of their violent tactics.

Gaetz is signaling to the conservative movement as a whole that it should
continue to embrace the sentiment behind the “stand back, stand by” directive.
He is actively inviting everyone on the right to view themselves as a militia
on behalf of Trump, willing to use force to bend society to their movement’s will.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...ack-rcna152630

In this forum I learnt that chanting "Death to America" is just asking for peaceful change in how the government operates, while standing behind and close by someone in a photo, and writing it as caption of such a photo, clearly implicates a will to use violence in the political process.

Amazing how many things we can learn in this forum.

Yup and the party that will save democracy is spending huge amounts of money to keep RFK off the ballot and will not allow him to debate .

Trump had a really good day in court as Cohen proves he will lie about anything

Yes, you are babbling, as usual. Do you understand that the prosecutor needs to prove the elements of both crimes here?

And your understanding of the Carroll case is frighteningly naive.

There is no democratic right to a free national platform

No he doesn't, he just needs to prove intent for the additional crime.

And the Carroll case was about allowing a jury to decide if rape actually happened or not just on probable cause, to determine a civil case, which is kind of aberrant, even if Trump wasn't on trial for rape.

Oh I agree but I get tired of hearing the democrats are the party that will save democracy from Trump(Hitler)

No, the intent is only one of the elements of the criminal act and is in dispute. It is an intent crime and the other elements are evident in the facts ie he was running for office and failed to report the hush money was campaign related.

Lol, quit goal post shifting. Which Carrol litigation do you want to discuss, the first case or the second continued defamation case?

read the definition of the crime again:

/A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof./

Drowning in your own bias.

And Trump didn't mean that when he said it.
And it's just a coincidence when Gaetz uses the same phrase.

Kind of like calling the witch Ugly?

I was just noting that you can claim that and it's all ok, but if i claim "death to america" is actual violence incitement, then i am just strawmanning (see the other thread on the topic).

I agree you can evaluate the meaning of phrases based on context, and allege that there are implicit meanings that can be nefarious behind Gaetz caption.

I just want to be able to do the same everytime

Glenn Kirschner discusses Trump's attorneys failing to meet the bar to discredit Michael Cohen in court.



Turns out, Trump's defense attorney Todd Blanche may have
destroyed his client's best defense in his opening statement.

You do realize that it wasn’t trumps party that pushed super hard to shut down the economy for well over a year after Covid started, supported the printing of money at 3x the normal rate, grew the size of govt (which is still spending at pandemic levels) and threw money around in the economy?

Dems should be doing everything they can to downplay how bad inflation is. You may be able to trick a few people into thinking trump is worse for inflation, but there is too many good resources out there that point to what dems did after Covid as the perfect recipe for inflation for this to be a winning play for dems.

Yeah, the party that supported a riot that last 2 years and we’re ok with their voters trying to intimidate Supreme Court justices are the party of peace.

Falsifying business records is an intent crime, when you can show an intent to commit another crime it is a higher penalty crime. The prosecutors much prove Trump intentionally made false business records because he intended to commit election fraud. His attorney has argues the recording keeping “errors” were not intentional , but sloppiness or negligence, and that the intent was to not embarrass his family rather than election fraud.

Where exactly did you hear that?

Standing with the Proud Boys is standing with a violent protest movement,

In the "death to America" thread, repeatedly, by various people

He alludes this because people argued his original meaning that death to America meant death to any or all Americans wasn’t correct .
Some posters argued it could have many other interpretations and not necessarily death to any Americans since the term « America » could be interpret as a political system and other allusions , not solely to human life’s .

Now he just try to find another absolute meaning of the term ….

It’s a binary thinking thing .

But obv when president trump speak loudly with « fight like hell » at the end of speech that created January 6th , he miraculously can find many other interpretations of the words « fight like hell » to not condemn trump ….

Huh, I hadn't seen that thread. Just read the first page and don't find it interesting enough to read anymore.

If anyone did say that DTA meant only peaceful change, I'm sure most would disagree with them.

Of course no one did.

I think you'll rarely see me accusing anyone of lying. I think the term is used far too liberally, and rarely correctly. That said, Luciom is quite clearly lying here. He was called out for his silly claims in that thread and, unable to defend his nonsense in that thread like "According to the left ITT you are morally justified to want to kill people if your life sucks", he did what he always does - shifted the goalposts. When that didn't work out, he moved on, until now when he tried to toss out similar nonsense here. I can't recall a single person having said that DTA means only peaceful change, let alone it being said "repeatedly, by various people". Luciom knows that didn’t happen.

Only tankies would justify the destruction of property in a protest and these are fringe elements of the so-called left

man gangsta himself said many people said that



the left ITT was the filthy something guy saying that homeless people were morally justified to say death to America.

so which is it, does death to America always imply violence, or are several people claiming that no actually it can mean to peaceful ask for radical changes? several people said that DTA doesn't automatically imply violence, which means it can be read as only peaceful change, which means it isn't according to them an inherent violent threat.

which if true... is true for the standing by as well. if there ever exist at least one interpretation in which it isn't automatically violent, for you then it's absurd to claim it is violent.

well if that is the case it had to work with any statement by anyone all the times.

OR, any statement that can be read as a violent threat is actually a violent threat.

but no for your guys on the left it's like this: statement by the left, with the actual death word in it , "could mean it metaphorically for the idea of america", not necessarily violent. statement from the right, a guy standing near the president captioning "I am standing by", obvious violent threat because an irrilevant radical right group uses a vaguely similar slogan.