I now find myself having been on both sides of this debate, as I have changed sides. Eugenia Cooney is a well known Youtuber and streamer and has been in the public eye online for a long time now. She has always been very very thin, and there has pretty much always been a controversy over her and her appearance and if social media companies are causing harm to young people by hosting Eugenia's content.

I used to defend Eugenia adamantly. I recognized that she had some personal problems but reasoned that I do as well, so she should be supported rather than shunned. I've watched quite a lot of her content over the years and have been aware of her for a long time, and I've always found her to be a true sweetheart of a person. Someone who is genuine and caring and who just wants to have a happy life and for others to be happy as well. I still feel this way about her, but after seeing her latest Youtube short and the state she is in currently, I still support her in the way of caring about her, but it's now clear to me that her continued online presence and her mother's involvement in her life is a very harmful thing to Eugenia, and probably to a lot of her viewers as well.


Recently, her grandmother died, and she put out a video talking about how things are really bad for her.






Since then I think she has really deteriorated. Today I saw a video of hers for the first time in a while, this youtube short of her doing a Selena cosplay to the song, bidi bidi bom bom, and I cannot believe how dangerously thin she is right now. (sorry idk if you can embed youtube shorts like normal yt vids)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eU1Prwen_7g


Frankly this is as bad as I've ever seen her look All you can see in her clothing is bones. All you can see when she raises her arm is bones. She literally looks like a holocaust survivor

It's a pretty complex issue with Eugenia, because since she was a kid she's been completely obsessed with the character Jack Skellington from A Nightmare Before Christmas, and people theorize that this is why she starves herself, because she wants to look like Jack Skellington. But more importantly, HER MOTHER is a huge problem.

Her mother, Deb, Debbie, Debra Cooney, is a COMPLETE PIECE OF ****ING **** because she does not care about Eugenia's health and wellness and safety. She enables this. Eugenia lives with her mother and always has, she's not independent. Her mother has undoubtedly benefited financially from Eugenia's success online. If any readers are unaware of who Eugenia Cooney is, she's really "a thing," man, and she has been for a long time. She absolutely has done very well for herself online financially with her youtube and other social media. She makes money, and has probably made a hell of a lot of money over the years. Her mother no doubt benefits from this. To what extent? I have no idea, but they live in a very wealthy area in California in a very nice expensive house.

Several years ago, Eugenia was getting to such a bad point with her weight that her friends she knows IRL staged an intervention and got her 5150'd into treatment. Her recovery process was somewhere around a year, and during this time she was not online at all. She did not release any content on social media, she was not active or present on social media in any way. Her treatment was a success! The photo on the left is how she looked after the recovery process.






The photo on the right was about a year ago, and she's only gotten worse since her grandmother died.

I have to repeat a couple things I said. Her FRIENDS helped her get treatment. Not HER MOTHER. Her mother ENABLES Eugenia to engage in self destructive behavior and does not intervene to such an extent that Eugenia now looks like a holocaust survivor, just saved from Auschwitz.

People trying asking Deb if she's concerned for Eugenia. She says no, and says even her doctors say she's fine.





SHE'S NOT FINE, DEB. She was doing fine after treatment, that YOU did nothing to get her into, and she needs treatment NOW and you do NOTHING to help her get it, Deb, you fat **** piece of **** waste of oxygen

I don't know if Eugenia doesn't eat because her mother eats all the food in the house, or if her mother is just selfish and greedly, all she cares about is the money that that comes in ("I WANT THE MONEY")





But what I do know is that I am very very concerned for Eugenia right now, she deserves better for herself, and she deserves a better parent, one who actually gives a **** about her health and will help her get treatment, instead of enabling this self destruction. Eugenia doesn't drive, she's not independent. She doesn't cook. She can barely even walk their pug, Buzz. Deb takes her shopping for all the clothes she models, Deb doesn't make food for her to eat, Deb does a lot of the filming for Eugenia's videos, she participates in a lot of them, and she says $Eugenia$ is doing $ just $ fine $$$


I used to argue vehemently on Eugenia's behalf with other people. Is everyone familiar with freak shows and geek shows? We all know what a carnival freak show is, right? It's a carnival exhibition of people with severe deformities. But that's not the only part. The freaks are the main attraction. Before the freak show was the geek show. The geek looked like a normal person on the outside, but their deformity was on the inside. The geek was a ****ed up person to such an extent that they would go on stage before the freaks and warm up the crowd by biting the heads off of live chicken or mice (shout out to Joe Coleman ). The geek would traditionally be paid nothing other than a bottle of booze, maybe a little food, and a place to sleep. Going town to town, getting drunk, eating the heads off of live animals, and then passing out in a pile of hay, to do it all again the next day was the life of a geek. A common thing for people to say in the chat in Eugenia's stream is "eat something." I used to argue with these people saying, "Eugenia is not a geek, she's streaming a video game."

Well, no, she's not a geek, and her content is not a geek show. Sadly though, what it is now though, is a freak show. It is a complete and utter freak show, and it brings in a lot of money, but it is incredibly self destructive for Eugenia, and I have no doubt that it's potentially very harming for impressionable young girls who might want to emulate Eugenia and her appearance. Why shouldn't kids emulate her? She's got tons of viewers online and has a lot of success! Right??? She lives in a huge house in a wealthy area in Cali and has tons of makeup and clothes and stuff that she models, that's appealing, right???

It's indefensible at this point imo. She needs help, she needs help badly, and her mother is killing her by enabling this.

In this recent video, a viewer posted a comment about protecting the children from the dangers of her videos. Eugenia responds that she's not a danger to children, and says that if people out there are parents, they should just try to be a good parent.




She fails to recognize the harm that her mother is doing to her by enabling this. Look at how healthy she looked after her recovery. That's what good parenting is, and she got to that point at a clinic, not in Deb's house. She's been back in Deb's house for several years now, and her grandmother just passed away, and now look at her health and weight. She literally looks like a holocaust survivor. This is a statement I would have gotten banned responding to in the past, but now I am stating it myself.


I think this is politically relevant. Social media plays a massive role in people's lives, especially teenagers and younger children. Eugenia Cooney is at the most unhealthy point in her life since her recovery, and her mother does absolutely nothing about it because she's making money, at least by proxy. Social media companies keep allowing her content and do nothing about it, because they are getting traffic, views, and ad revenue.

Where does this end? Is there no one that can intervene in a meaningful way to help save this girl's life??? She completely shunned her friends after her 5150 and has nothing to do with them, from my understanding. There is NO ONE to help pull her out of this, because the people close to her are benefiting, and the social media platforms are befitting.

So what, is she just going to die publicly as the final act of what is now clearly a freak show? Deb and the social media companies get a **** load of money and Eugenia just dies and that's all just fine, because money?

* What can be done about this?
* How harmful is Eugenia's content to children?
* Should social media companies be regulated to disallow content like Eugenia's because of her health issues and her potential impacts on children?

Just as a side note without wading into the actual topic, the forum is titled Politics and Society so strict political relevance should not be necessary as long as it has societal relevance...which this would seem to obviously.

Is it outlandish to compare this to livestreams of people shooting up heroin or smoking meth or crack?? Obviously people can't have livestreams where they shoot up heroin. But someone who so clearly is dangerously unhealthy and is presenting themself in a glamorous and childish way is allowed.

Is it because there's no money in heroin live streams? Smoking crack isn't glamorous enough? Is it just the legality? She's not breaking any laws so it's allowed???

I'm honestly most concerned with her health and safety. I recognize that she could impact children negatively, but that's just a general thing to me. I've known and cared about Eugenia for years, I'm most concerned with her and I'm at a loss as to how she can be helped out of this. The only thing I see is permanent removal from Deb's house.

I looked this person up and she does appear to be a relatively prominent Youtube content creator. I don't have any problem with a thread devoted to a discussion of (i) whether people like this woman are creating harmful content or harming themselves; and (ii) whether social media companies should be allowed to regulate such content.

But I doubt that many posters in this forum will be familiar enough with this woman (or her mother) to move beyond a discussion of the general issues.

Do you actually know this person, or do you just watch the videos? If you know her, then reach out directly.

It's undeniable that Social Media is a cancer on society, but this instance is hardly any different than an episode of Jackass or someone doing a particularly idiotic internet "challenge", unless you're claiming this girl is being held and tortured against her will.

What is the behavior here that you want to make a crime? Talking to a camera while being mentally ill and grossly underweight?

Could the same not be said for people who record videos while drunk, high, operating a vehicle, etc? All of that is dangerous behavior that shouldn't be emulated by anyone. How is this any different than all of the TLC shows that follow people with mental illnesses around? Hoarders, my 600lb life, freaky eaters, etc. People have been going to freak shows since the dawn of time. Every single person involved has signed up for it, including this girl.

She's definitely nailing the goal of looking like the guy from Nightmare Before Christmas.

I can’t comment too much on this particular case due to lack of familiarity. That said, from what you’ve posted it seems clear that social media is not the underlying cause of her particular illness, although it is perhaps making it worse. It is also totally possible that she would be behaving like this without social media, she is clearly very unwell.

Overall, to justify any kind of regulation, I’d like to see clear evidence social media is making this kind of extreme behaviour significantly worse, rather than just making it more visible. It’s possible this evidence already exists, I’m not qualified to say.

Social media definitely can be toxic. My side hustle is in social media, and after passing maybe around 100k subscribers the self-imposed pressure starts getting pretty crazy. In some ways it is just a job like any other, but it causes me way more anxiety than my normal job. Things like constantly refreshing analytics to see how people are responding to the latest video and the pressure of what happens if it doesn't perform the way you were hoping for the sponsors who have paid to be in the video etc etc. I don't have mental health challenges, but I can't imagine how it might be for someone with what appears to be pretty severe mental health challenges.

Probably depends on how often you're actually refreshing your analytics. If it were actually constant it would be fair to say you have some challenges.

Well I'm sure most posters haven't seen a trans person in a bathroom or on a sporting field but look at that thread ...




No I don't know her personally. I'm not saying it should be a crime, it's just that it's an incredibly self destructive cycle she's in, and social media and her mother are doing nothing but pouring gasoline on the fire.



Her year long absence from social media and recovery is what you should look at. She was away from social media for about a year and came out at a much healthier weight and was full of life and beauty and happiness. Now she's been back at her content for several years and she looks like she's on the verge of death

Ha, well yes I am not literally checking it constantly. But it is the 1st thing I check when I open my phone in the morning. Everyone thinks I get up and just start making fun of lozen in the Canada thread - NOT TRUE! Lozen is a distinct 2nd place.

But more seriously, it isn't exactly the checking that I feel is toxic. It is sort of the emotional reaction. Like if I make a great video I'm really proud of, that pride immediately evaporates into an anxiety pit if viewer retention is a little below normal.

Correlation/causation is awkward here. Is she getting less healthy because she is posting more content, or is she posting more content because she is getting less healthy. Most likely some kind of vicious cycle. There’s clearly a bunch of factors going on (eg her mum)

That said, if I were her friend I’d certainly be advising her to get off social media, let’s put it that way.

I've had negative experiences with it affecting my mental state. I've played music since I was 14, it's been a life long dream to have a career in music, and when I work really ****ing hard on music and make a video and upload it to youtube and I get like 200 views in three years it makes me want to kill myself

Especially when I see content with tens or hundreds of thousands of views that just like .... someone eating a hotdog or someone tripping over something or like, just an attractive female watching something and reacting to it and they get like a million views. What the **** is the point???? I used to think the internet would open all these doors for me with my music and allow me to have an audience and succeed, because where I live it's a ****ing barren waste land of culture, and then I work for a month on something and put it out there and I can't even get 50 ****ing views on it, what's the ****ing point? Makes me want to die

Here's a good concrete example: I'm not going to get into all of it, but I had a horrible experience over the last ten years with this band I was playing with, that was ripping me off horribly. I sued the **** out of them and it ended in disaster. It filled me with a lot of despair and horrible feelings and also homicidal rage, so I decided I'm going to record a cover and make a music video for Late For The Sky by Jackson Brown, and make an homage to Taxi Driver music video. I got a camera, I'm gonna get a 44 magnum, I'm gonna do the whole works, really work my ass off on it and make it a great recorded song and a great, but probably really crazy music video.

I'm gonna do it, because wtf else am I gonna do? But at the end after it's all done and it's put out there, I know I won't get any ****ing views on the video and it's just going to end with me wanting to hang myself because I worked so ****ing hard on it and got nothing out of it

You have people like Eugenia Cooney who are very sick and massively amplified by social media, and people like me who are also kind of very sick but social media just locks me in a room by myself and I just talk to the wall.

I don't know how to deal with this in any sort of healthy way.

I think you have to do things and put them out there not for the views but because you enjoy doing it and if no one sees it then you're still building your portfolio for the future.

Sometimes removing yourself from a toxic environment for a while works, and sometimes it doesn't. She's just as much to blame here as her mom.

How is this any different than an alcoholic falling off the bandwagon and being "preyed upon" by their local pub? The alcoholic had to make the choice to take that first drink after rehab. Nobody forced it down their throat.

You can't help people who won't help themselves.

Yeah I do do that but no one will care in the future either

I'm just going to have my greatest fear realized: work my whole ****ing life at something, and die a complete nobody

is fuuunnn yay nothing :bang:

Social media companies don't amplify the local drunk and present them as glamorous to teenagers?

99% of people will die as complete nobodies. Many of them will have had happy and meaningful lives.

You can enjoy hobbies purely for the joy in that hobby, not necessarily for any kind of recognition.

That's a fair point. Having a basis for an opinion isn't much of a prerequisite for offering an opinion around here.

FYP.

You only get one go at things unless Vishnu smiles upon you and brings you back for round 2. Worry less about what other people think about you and your accomplishments and just go have some [legal] fun.

ha! My entire existence is nothing but one big crime

I think that's true at the beginning and certainly was for me, just posting some educational stuff I was interested in. But after it blows up and the money starts coming in, it really changes things. Besides, it can take me anywhere from 5-30 hours to make a single video, gotta be being paid to keep doing that regularly.

Looking at Eugenia's stats I'd estimate something like 100k a year. Sort of hard to tell, I'm guessing she gets few sponsorships and ad rates are probably on the low end for her view count and I don't see big promotion of patreon/merch type stuff, but it could be more if I'm wrong about those. So it's a decent living but nothing amazing. Regardless, it absolutely is her "career" and so she is going to feel tonnes of pressure to keep going even if it is very unhealthy for her.

How did you get to the "blow up" point and how did things change for you uke?

We see now how social media is an evil that won't ever go away.

There's an endless train of clout chasers who want to get it on the dopamine action.

Who wouldn't want to be a celebrity? Even if only the niche internet variety. There are people who literally shoot themselves in the face on camera for internet likes. Are we going to outlaw stupidity next?

I have a weird path. So YouTube is really two things. It is a search engine, where you search for something specific. And it is a recommendation engine where it shows you think you might be interested in. I began just by posting videos from my own courses I had made for my own students, and a couple of those videos got ranked at the top of the youtube search engine for those hyperspecific search terms. If you are a student learning blah, then youtube lists my video first. That led to a steady stream of views because literally for years that video is bringing in a slow trickle. Over time I made more and more videos to hit more and more search terms, but after a while I switched and now target the recommendation engine. That is, I'll release a video that is of general interest (to people in my niche) with the hopes that it goes "viral" and is shown to many people who didn't search out that topic and didn't subscribe to m. It's super high variance. One video will get 500k views, the next will get 20k, because it all depends on whether it is competitive enough in the hyper competitive recommendation engine. And these videos rarely get search traffic because I'm no longer doing standard topics from say second year university courses.