So u think poor people and lower middle class do not deserve the same quality of health care and education as everyone else ?

For you there is nothing that should be consider "essential needs" and everything should be at the mercy of the higher bidder ?

And then u come here and with your right wing agenda u say you fight and defend poor people ? lol...

anything that needs to service poor people in the same way as the wealthy..

healthcare, medications, insurance, postal service, education, public transportation, prisons...

you won't agree, but it's not particularly close.

eta- the postal service is actually the perfect similar situation.. the minute you privatize and get rid of the usps rural people will see diminished service, and eventually will be cut off completely because it's not profitable.

Slighted apparently just thinks that every private school out there comes with wrought iron ivy-covered gates, entrance exams, and an equestrian sports team.

There are a ton of people in the education space who want to provide better alternatives for at-risk youth without major screening or other prequalifications.

My wife effectively donated the first 6 years of her teaching career to such a school. She stayed good friends with the director, and now nearly 20 years later, that same woman is looking to set up an alternative high school for Milwaukee's forgotten youth. Just like the school that came before it, it'll operate on a shoestring budget compared to the main district, and have outcomes more favorable than MPS.

It's true, though, that you are held to higher behavior standards at these private and charter schools. Not much higher, because the charter schools are paid purely based on enrollment, but yeah you can get kicked out a lot easier.

Plus, if the worst outcome of full school choice is that the public district is left with only the worst of the worst kids, then I say fan-****ing-tastic. You excise the unhealthy tissue so the rest of the body can heal. Stop punishing entire generations of kids just because we don't have the testicular fortitude to admit that some are a lost cause.

my parents were public school teachers for a combined 70 years. i understand that some people are just good people and want to help others learn. but charity and philanthropy isn't a particularly good replacement for actual education systems and welfare systems.. that's a republican talking point pipe dream.

an educated populace is a societal GOOD and society should be willing and wanting to pay for that.

Yet, nobody here is excited for my solution to this, which is state sponsorship of military-style boarding schools for the areas of the country that are dragging down our numbers.

If mom and/or dad aren't pulling their weight, then eliminate them from the equation.

The teachers know by age 7 which kids need to be shipped off. It's a relatively small number of kids that ruin it for everyone else. It's not like we're going to be opening institutions for millions of kids.

While we're at it, let those kids continue on to join the actual military out of high school and take advantage of a free college education after they get out. If nothing else, imagine the impact on crime stats, much less educational outcomes.

A lot of these parents will be happy to get rid of their little terrors during the school year anyway. Win/win/win.

But but but what about FREEDOM????
And no government running our life ?

You're saying we should give up on trying to educate certain children in our country?

Correct. It seems insane to suggest that rich people shouldn't be able to pay for some really expensive health care service/drug OR a super high level of education that we should not offer literally everyone. Are you suggesting we should offer to pay for every kid's grade school, high-school, college and as many masters programs as they want on the tax payers' dime or we should outlaw masters programs?

What medications is the government manufacturing?

What insurance is the gov't better at than the free market?

If the postal service shut down within the next year there are some people who would have to pay more (people in rural areas) and there are some people who would end up paying less (people that live in high density areas). I'm not sure why you think people who live in the city should subsidize people in rural areas, but that seems inherently unfair to city dwellers. However, nobody would get shut off from getting mail/deliveries - they would just have to pay extra.

What makes you think public edu > private edu?

I can't think of any public transit that was private and is now public (or visa versa) that shows public is better. I would need to see some examples of this.

Wow. Thank you for introducing me to a brand new experience, bahbah - agreeing with one of your posts.

Not necessarily. I'm definitely saying you shouldn't allow that tiny minority to poison the well that all of their peers drink from, which is how it is now.

You've got a class of 25-30 kids, maybe 3 to 5 of which absolutely refuse to allow learning to take place, and that screws over the entire group.

You can watch this happen in real time in thousands of classrooms across the country every single day. The teachers know who the problems are. The admins know who the problems are. The law doesn't allow us to quarantine those kids to salvage the education of rest of the class.

I'll worry about educating those 5 monsters once the other 20-25 kids are on their way to recovery in a classroom where some learning can take place.

I know 2p2 is mostly a bunch of rich white dudes, but I really think you guys grossly underestimate how dysfunctional these urban schools are, and not because of a lack of funding. Some of these buildings are just in a constant state of mass violence and disrespect. Slighted says his parents were teachers for 70 years. That's great. I have fond memories from my nice little Christian school, too. My own kids attended the same school until we moved out of the Milwaukee district and I could send them to a public school with a parent/teacher conference attendance rate higher than 1%. That public school was fine, too.

The Milwaukee Public Schools are very much not, and that's potentially 70,000+ Milwaukee kids who will suffer the consequences of inaction each year. With a graduation rate hovering around 50%, and who knows how many of those graduates having a reading level that even approaches their alleged grade level. It's a complete shitshow, and all because the teachers are forced to play prison warden every day instead of doing their actual job.

Good post, Inso0. I mostly agree.

The notion that a small number of kids can ruin the educational experience for a much larger group has some merit. But it's ridiculous to think that you can make a decision about whether to give up on a kid by age 7.

And I have never understood how you would propose to implement mandatory military-style boarding school. What if the parents don't want to send their kids to that sort of school? Are you proposing to physically remove them from the home against their parents' will?

prison

Look, you can dress it up however you want, but there is a real problem with gangs etc. in inner city schools in a lot of areas. Seriously, name another country that has metal detectors and security personnel in ****ing schools.

While some of Inso0s suggestions might be a little bit on the extreme side, denying that there is a problem helps nobody. If anything, his estimate of 5 problem kids per 20-25 total kids is too low for a lot of districts.

It has a lot of merit, because that's exactly what happens every single day in way too many classrooms. Sometimes the best possible advice given to the one or two sets of parents that show up for conferences is to take their kid to one of the charter schools where they can be given the attention they deserve.

The boarding school isn't meant to be permanent. You can fix a lot of these behavior issues in a year or two with some concerted effort and getting them out of their toxic, enabling environment. Leave it up to those admins to determine if the kids can be let back into the general classroom.

It's also important to separate legit mental health issues from kids just being a dick because that's how their parents raised them.

I don't have an answer for unwilling participants beyond making it clear to them that you can participate in the rehab program, or have your kid assigned and bused to a centralized school for problem children.

universal healthcare is vastly superior to anything private for society as a whole. it even costs less money.

i've lived in rural areas where cable companies simply told my family no we aren't ever giving you TV service because your road doesn't have enough houses. lol at thinking a private postal service would be any different. it would immediately go to limited delivery/pickup and then there would be no residential delivery/pickup at all within that year you speak of.

+1

Not necessarily to all and it doesn’t need to be 100% free either .
But having massive implication of government spending and managing school is something very normal in all develop countries.
Wherever it’s education or health care .

Point being people pay higher taxes so that everyone got basic need so yes school is very cheap but u pay it later on when u work by being taxed higher .
Pretty fair exchange imo .

As U go longer in school , u cost the most money to society to educate as u earn more and more diploma.
when u Ready to work in a good job , we ask u to pay higher taxes for the cost of your education by paying for others having the same opportunity u had earlier on .

Or to fund a war in Ukraine

Lets not forget all those migrant kids that are thrown into classrooms not speaking a word of english

Do you want them to learn English or not? A classroom seems like the place they should be?

For the right price they would still deliver or you could opt to having your mail go to a local post office where you can pick it up for cheaper. If you choose to live in a remote area there are pros and cons of that decision and one of those should be that you no longer get your mail cost subsidized by people who live in the city.

Hey this is NSFW so be warned but you guys gotta watch this CSPAN clip of Senator Kennedy reading from banned books:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k62P1WLCR7U

But for the record you are on the side that is putting pornography in school libraries and fighting to have them put back in, correct?

Meanwhile, while the right is trying to take actual porn out of schools and being castigated for it, this is what is going on on the other side (entire libraries being emptied in the name of equity) with nary a peep from the liberal MSM.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ding-1.6964332

--I know this is Canada, but the way things are going I dont see any major ideological reason the left wouldn't try the same thing here if they thought they could get away with it.

Ah, so that's what's happening? You're confident that this is a good and complete description - just taking out actual porn?

Except, it's not, at least not intentionally. It seems pretty clear from the article that some schools ****ed up and removed everything pre-2008.

LO****ingL. "Not a peep from the liberal MSM", and then provides a link from the media source most commonly accused in Canada of being liberal. And when I Google "Ontario library removing books", I find articles/clips from pretty much every major Canadian media source.

So...get away with what, exactly? The mistake? Because I don't think anyone is trying to "get away with it". Now if you mean the idea of going through and removing some books that are:

Misleading – information may be factually inaccurate or obsolete.
Unpleasant – refers to the physical condition of the book, may require replacement.
Superseded – book been overtaken by a new edition or a more current resource.
Trivial – of no discernible literary or scientific merit; poorly written or presented.
Irrelevant – doesn't meet the needs and interests of the library's community.
Elsewhere – the book or the material in it may be better obtained from other sources.

Perhaps you can expand on the issue. Do you have a problem with this happening at all, or the way it's being done, or who is in charge of it, or...?