It seemed you were saying looks rule everything and I was saying there is more to it.

I think that's almost all guys once you throw on "given no other option".

Ok so you are saying online dating is making it such that pretty boys with game get all the female affection, more so than before. Do you have any data to support that? It would seem as though if that were human nature there would be more polygamy and more tolerance for cheating on the part of women. You are saying we are actually a tournament species and comparing looks is the kind of fighting done, right? I think that's too much of a fundamental change to be happening. Women want commitment. A lot of women don't like any man they suspect of being a hoe. I'm not closed to the idea that online dating is promoting superficiality and what you say happens to some extent, but I would need to see some data where people are ranked on looks and then followed on dating apps in order to get a sense of the scope.

Me= poker and thc but trying to kick it, Everything is politics. Everything, the sites trying to promote poker trying to bind the players and to put the best light on poker when in reality it's dangerous to many people. Stay tuned, let's try to solve this mate.

Don't agree at all that satisfaction = addiction high. Two very different things. Now if one is addicted either to gambling or (maybe) to card playing, then the experience of playing/winning can be comparable to a drug high. Pleasure is not pleasure, as the saying goes ... some are rational and some are irrational.

I remember in earlier days being appalled at what some people did with their quality of life for their poker jones. Even well-to-do guys, didn't need the money, some weren't even winning players (revealing it wasn't about the money). But so many ran their health, peace, rest, life into the ground over I guess an obsession with the game. And this is different than addict losers that I'm talking about here ... we get that type.

I can relate to some of it from my 20s when I was the guy that just wouldn't leave a game, always playing till the break up, obsessed with it. But by my 30s and ever since I played short sessions, get some money and run, don't spend your life in the smoke-filled (back then) den of emptiness. But many others in our games continued right on. And, say a trip to Vegas, for that type its "never leave the card room, play as long as you can stay awake, no other relaxing activities like the pool, golf, shows." Just mired in the hustle. There's a great book title "Lost in the Shuffle." SO SO apropos ... though it's about something else not poker.

The problem is imo that the two addictions go well together for a while and thats not only for poker, but apparently to other activities as skateboarding. The influence can apparently even stimulate creativity etc.etc. Stuey was playing better on coke than anyone without it I think and he is not the only one. That same was for lilholdem and ADZ but for a few other players too right now. So the problem is, that lots of people can play good, if not they only can play when they are on the stuff they decided to be on. In fact they cannot play or act normal, when not on it.


Check out this skateboarder, he was "quicker, faster, smarter" and was smoking weed all day, until he couldnt. He was the best until he wasnt. I just read in the adz thread that genius and crazy are seperated only by a fine line. Have to agree and thought of van gogh.

This guy was the best, but goes in and out of mental institutions for 15 years now.



Or this guy, apparently the skateboard world, lookling at bam margera too, has quite a few similarities when it comes to addictions and genius, and it reminded me of the poker world.
This guy is dead at 30. RIP, He was a very nice and very talented guy. Nobody understood why or saw it coming. His sister is working on a mental health project now in the UK.


Its crazy and I barely understand it, my friend I went to school with, was the brightest and fastest in school, along with a few other guys, he crushed it, top of the class, but then he lost it around the age of 19, he was given meds, and killed himself at the age of 34-35. I am still thinking of him, he was a very good guy.

Another mental health case in poker.

Cliffs, guy discovers or thinks that he can play better live poker on drugs, gets invited to play on stream at live at the bike, doesnt sleep for days and goes completey off the rails, suicide. He beat Garrett Adelstein and others at the stream before:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...jiang-1758437/

So playing better under the influence is in fact an illusion imo. It works sort of like a credit and only backfires. Imo anyone can play much better without anything, definetly more stable and without less negative consequences. The problem is just that both ways work somehow.. Maybe more enjoyable even with one beer or so but shouldn't be taken too far.

Those were some really good documentaries. Thought I would watch a few minutes and ended up watching both to the end. I don't even skateboard either.

Seems like a lot schizophrenia manifests itself a lot in people's early 20s. Also smoking weed at a young age may have increase risk or maybe schizophrenics just start smoking weed younger. Also like the 2nd doc said, mental health was not talked about growing up. Things have changed for the better in that regard.

Glad you liked it. Yeah, mental health was not talked about enough and still is not. Take care.

Sorry to hear about your friend. It is always painful to lose somebody you love to an addiction.

My father who was an alcoholic and smoked 3 to 4 packs of cigarettes a day died of a heart attack at the age of 54 about 43 years ago. I didn't realize how powerless I was. I had tried repeatedly to get him to stop smoking (which ironically he did for 2 years before dying). But I was entirely powerless in getting him to stop drinking (he did stop drinking hard liquor but had wine every night...)

As somebody who has had alcoholism in my family for generations I can say that gambling addictions are likely no different. Estimates I have heard range at about 5% to 10% of all people who go to casinos have addiction problems with gambling and likely other things as well.

Having spent over 36 years in Al-Anon I also have a lot of perspective on how addiction affects family members.

So one thing I would recommend is that we stop naming poker and gambling addicts. It is unfair to family members who would prefer to live their lives in anonymity. Because addiction is hereditary, naming people could cause harm to relatives.

My understanding of addiction (from studying Psych in college) comes from Maslow whose theory was that something related to pain drives it and then once the addictive cycle starts it stops being about the pain and ultimately becomes about the addictive activity whatever it is.

My personal belief is that though gambling addictions affect many lives it is not gambling itself that is causing it. And were gambling to be outlawed everywhere it probably wouldn't stop those people from developing addictions in other areas (or probably gambling as well - see US Prohibition era).

I am glad that there are gambler's anonymous phone numbers available in most casinos. I always joke that they should be handed out on tournament buy ins during the final break where rebuys can happen (and people are buying in for about 20 or so blinds). Not to say that I have not bought in during that last rebuy period (and cashed, which if I was addicted would be really bad).

And I am not saying that I haven't gone on an addictive tilt and spewed money even though I am a winning player.

But as with any addiction there are many ways to recover and many ways to avoid addiction in the first place (I set my loss limit to $2,300 a session in 20/40 LHE when I was doing that professionally)

I hope anybody reading this who fears that they are addicted can take the first step to getting help. Either by going to a meeting or by putting themselves to a test. If you can go 30 days without entering a casino or making a bet then you probably aren't addicted. If not, look to seek help (and one thing I would stress is that while completely eliminating the addictive activity from your life is one way of solving the addictive problem, there are others that include continuing the activity in moderation). I recommend therapy in addition to any other form of help. Getting to the reasons for the pain and allowing yourself to experience it is a way out (or more to the point a way through it).

Dusty Schmidt now...RIP.

Get out of the lifestyle while you still can.

Hes been out for a while now though, but Leatherass evidentially had some major mental issues based of his twitter for > 5 years now, into qanon, maga, trump, anti-vax, etc

I actually wanted to send you a pm although I dont know you. Its because I have seen your post in the dusty thread. Now I can actually answer to your post here since I am on my desktop again. I wanted to ask you to post here because you seem very knowledgable. I dont have to quote your post, I actually remember every word. You said that in the past few years about 5 former supernova (elites) have died. That is really interesting altough sad. I knew Matt Marafioti, not personally, but I followed him on the internet. Dusty I only knew from seeing him online, he was always on ps as I remember railing the hs cash games. I remember seing his avator and thinking who the f is this guy in full admiration, same goes for Matt. Dario Minieri I railed and know he was also supernova. Who else? There seems to be a pattern, and I think I know what it is, but more on that later...


From what I could read about Dusty, it was not as crazy as I thought, haveing read some threads here on 2+2. I havent seen any Q or trump rants, only a few posts on his facebook. He said something about his hometown, detroit I think and how crazy it became. He seems to have been quite intelligent and likeable. Yeah it was a rant, but every word he said seemed to be speaking the truth about the conditions and the fears he had going out with his son. I could make out many simiarities with my life as a poker player, but also that he got injured on his way to become a pro golfer. I also got stopped becoming a pro sportsmen and that brought me to poker. For me it was windsurfing and surfing, I also tried golf, with my injuries I couldnt keep up with it, was too bad or not persistent enough.

Yeah I have put quite some time and energy into the subeject of addiction, to understand it and how to conquer it, since I have problems with it and other family members. Its my father as well, just as yours, and he is also drinking wine. I also cant get him to stop although I have tried almost anything possible. You are right about the naming of people I think, or I assume. But how else can we talk about it? If you come up with a better idea it would be great, I also thought it is somehow not right to talk about dead people and their problems. We all have problems. So I might as well add me to the thread. I have major problems with substance abuse and gambling. In the dusty thread I have read some stuff that I dont fully agree with and I wouldnt say they are all idiots, but some of them posters seem to underrestimate the potential harm gambling can have. So, since it is almost christmas I want to share some of my thoughts on this.



Yeah, poker can be fun, but only if you are not neglecting other stuff. The most important is your health. I know some other players, that are proud of their game, but lack skills in real life. Not to sound mean, but they lost in the biggest game there is, life. Poker can be entertaining and fun, and also chess can be. The problem is when its for a lot of money, the stess and addrenaline that comes with it. A real poker player (degen) only has a pulse when he is playing, or so he thinks, he could of course subistute it for other things. Only in his sick mind, there isnt any other thing. If you play chess for a lot of money it becomes the same thing, but with almost zero variance. Dusty was complaining about running bad, about 57 coolers a day, that is standard for poker (almost), it can happen any day and you can play as the best player in the world and feel miserable. There is no justice in poker.

The other problem is happiness, but that is almost the same subject. We are only happy then we succeed, when we win. But there will be many days where that wont happen. (I almost never post, when on a downswing, and that applies for real life as well) When Im up Im the happiest person on earth, when down the most miserable... and so on. That of course is wrong, just plain wrong. We should never play on our last dime or with money that is painful to lose, or that is making us feel that way. We should never feel miserable when missing our hand and not talking down a major pot. This is almost NO 1 rule in poker. Everyone knows this and should know this. How many people follow this rule though? Its not many. You are right about the percentage of people that go in a casino, that are problem gambler, even though I suspect more than 10%. Many need the adrenaline, they are addicted to it. What it gto, not many people follow there. They like to chase and hit flush and straight draws etc., to bully people around on the table and feel like the king of the world. When it works it gives them a kick, if not, and it will not work a lot of times, they feel miserable. So, in short, nobody, or the least amount of people play not results orientated as they should, not with perfect brm. This would stop the pain and the suffering of these people, of course. If you really enjoy something and dont play results orientated its all good, in other words. You can play your best and lose and go home and dont give a f.






I also think it is some kind of trying to escape reality, to compete with other people, the only problem with poker is the luck factor.
Im really interested in your knowledge in psych, I talked to a guy today who studied this.
Thanks for your empathy, you also have mine.

If you want to hear something about happyiness, turn into from min 5 or watch the whole thing. I know its an actor, but he says right things, "if you win, youre happy, if you lose youre not" And it should never be like this. I actually like his story telling skills and voice, also like his movies. But that shouldnt matter here, the content is iportant imo. Thats what drives people away from poker. They do not want poker (varicance) rule their life and let it decide if they are happy or not. I agree, I hate having happiness being dictated by the fall of the cards. It should never be that way. I hate being stuck and compulive. "cant stop, wont stop" is stupid. It triggers emotional and physical damage to be sitting for endless hours of course. Never let your ego get in a way. Let go, set hours if you have to play.



So on that note, be careful everybody, and for those who got out of poker, good move. There is so much stuff out there.


I also went to a lot of meetings, not only for myself. You must have great knowledge and I think we tried to conquer similar obstacles.

Did you play online too? I never played that high when the limit games where the thing online, only a few times when I had a mtt score. Only for a few hands and was definetely shaking after it from the adrenaline. Thats when I started smoking again. Yeah it was an emotional rollercoaster. Thats not say it was good. It was most likely stupid but gave me a huge kick. I was young and stupid looking for a thrill. Assuming that is what many people are after or hooked on. Do not do this, and especially not when intoxicated. Its greed, compulsion and all the bad thing. I read in this site greed is a hell of drug and it is.

He was into Q, trump, qanon, anti-vax etc, his twitter got taken down/suspended roughly a week ago, after his death.

NVG mods deleted a bunch of my posts, but as I mentioned earlier Ive seen several ex-sne grinders commit suicide, it seems still might be the case with DS, nothing seems confirmed though yet.

When I talk to other people about addicts I just use their first name or a nick name. Unless the person I am talking about has come out and admitted they were an addict (which my father actually did). I prefer this because children of addicts are much more prone to addiction than others so it could inadvertently cause them problems. And of course if the addict is still alive it could cause them harm as well (I also don't believe that I can be a judge of somebody else's addiction. I can only say that somebody's drinking/drugging/gambling/etc. affects me in ways that are problematic for me - I believe it is up to each individual to come to that conclusion for themselves).


My knowledge in psych ended in college when I took a course in Abnormal Psychology. I identified with every severe mental illness to the point where I couldn't read the book. Well I didn't identify with Multiple Personality Disorder...

Still trying...

Thanks, thats Incredible... was reading the blog. Pretty interesting.

At min 3.39 you can actually see what's all synthetic opiods.





Heath Ledger had 2 prescribed pills in his system. Oh yeah and he was apparently a heavy pot smoker, but he quit, which he substituted with this (or a coinsidence) also had insomnia.

The number one fantasy of a mature modern woman is to be in an open relationship. Screw em

What are yalls thoughts on porn addicition? Billie eilish recently came out on the subject

Big and important subject. Tell us more pls.

Are you being sarcastic

If not

Not at all, my friend. I think this is a new drug.
I know of people, me included, heavily affected by it. It's dangerous and underreported. Fightthenewdrug.com is a website I came across too.

Ok will check it out ty

Sorry at first I thought I was being trolled again because usually my ideas aren’t taken seriously

I was shown porn at an extremely young age and was given si swimsuit issues by my mother at an impressionable age and grew up with a pc and www connection in my room. So I have experience with this addiction.

I’d love to see major sites voluntarily have links on their pages for people seeking help or who may have a problem. Perhaps someone like eilish could sway them to do so.

No offense taken I know how it is.
I have several hard drives packed with that crap. I have to regularly buy new hard drives or my computers won't work. I don't even watch 99.9% of it. Lol. (All legal) It's an obsession like with many other things. Friends think I am crazy, so i rarely telI anyone about it. I think it flooding the senses with all the availability. It never ends it never stops. Like a compulsive disorder. If I hadn't had spent so much time with this crap I would have done so many things differently, including having had more and better relationships to everyone. But yeah virtual sex, screw that. It's all bullshit. You have to force yourself or limit yourself with it. Like with everything else, I think.