Interesting that we're talking about the long term effects of slavery in the CRT thread since that's sort of the basis of CRT.

Also interesting that it's not obvious to everyone that America is one racist country and always has been. Seems like we're starting to get a grip on it but it's still going to take a couple of generations. Assuming Mr Trump doesn't get in in 24. That will set us back a few decades at least.

Obama was raised by white people in Hawaii that’s all I’m saying. ‘Not a black person’ is inartful and probably wrong but the point stands that Barack Obama didn’t exactly grow up with what would be understood and implied by the term the black experience in America.

What age should we start pointing out races to kids in school? I say 6th grade, then hit em with the white supremacy in 10th. the kindergarteners sorting their class by race was disgusting no matter whose Twitter feed circulated it. You can’t deny that paper with the kindergartners sorted by race.

"The head of the Environmental Protection Agency “liked” a racist post about the Obamas a few years ago and engaged with prominent far-right conspiracy theorists on social media, according to screen images published online Tuesday.

Andrew Wheeler, who has been the agency’s acting administrator since Scott Pruitt resigned in July, “liked” a racist meme that showed President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama staring at a banana, sometime after it was published in January 2013, according to an image posted online by HuffPost."

Good thing Obama was half white or the memes would be even more inartful.

Thanks for that link it was a good read. I don't really disagree with him. Again, it's not the work conditions themselves that I think are the source of disparate modes of post-emancipation adjustment, but the ideology as maintained and imposed by various means. It's interesting that when he got his appointment he was only the 2nd Black professor at Harvard and he was born and raised in Jamaica.

Patterson points out a major misunderstanding which has also happened here where people conflate a cultural critique with victim blaming:

Maybe now that a foreign born Black person is saying this it can be accepted by Trolly.

Here is another key quote getting at what I am getting at:

Well there was some exchange happening with interracial children of Whites going to school in England and things like that. And, again, they weren't necessarily nicer. They were mean. But they just didn't have the need to be mean in the particularly wicked way practiced by American Whites. This was due to the transient nature of the White population in the islands, as well as closer familial ties to Blacks, as well as the Whites being a minority, which was all facilitated by the harsh living conditions.

One of the biggest obstacles to addressing race is that the topic has this property by which literally everyone in the world thinks they are an expert in it but, in reality, almost everyone totally sucks at it.

It's kinda like poker in that way. I'm sure that any of you who are competent poker players have had the experience of trying to teach a friend how to play poker. A few times I've brought the experience to micro stakes online, guiding the pupil through the thinking in live hands. What do they do? You tell them to fold and why and they call. They've seen you make money playing poker. They respect your intelligence. They see you have a lot of experience. But, in spite of all that, they know better.

So there will never be a coherent, unified approach to teaching children how to understand race and racism. Everyone is an expert in their own mind, just like poker. We just have to accept that the topic of race will always, for forever and all time, be a shitshow.

If we could just teach the high schoolers that the idea that melanin somehow affects IQ is nonsense that would be good. If we could reach those White students, in particular White males who might go on to be seduced by the alt right and duped by all kinds of pseudo science that might achievable. We have identified specific genes which lead to all kinds of cognitive impairments. We have never discovered any gene that leads to higher IQ. There are easy ways to debunk the Hernstein-Murray thesis which I think anyone can understand. If we can just convey that to all high schoolers maybe that could be one solid thing that could yield results.

Hey guys sorry we're forcing you into insane death rates--but look at the bright side you can be a human fleshlight if you're lucky.

Yeah. What you might be getting at is what Patterson terms the "protective scowl."

Couple snips from his “Try On the Outfit and Just See How It Works”: The Psychocultural Responses of Disconnected Youth to Work:

• However, ABC had limited success in challenging one highly visible instance of the distinctive street culture: the protective scowl. Attempts to undo the chronic accessibility of the “mean-mug” look and to learn and make more accessible the simple act of smiling more frequently were strongly resisted. While acknowledging the importance of a pleasant demeanor in the workplace, almost all found it difficult to conform to the smiling ideal of the service employee; only six respondents out of the sixteen who reported a need for change in this area seemed to have made substantial progress.
  
  
• Similarly, our study of ABC’s effort to change black youths’ work attitudes and habits in the Boston area found that while they were prepared to learn nearly all of the declarative knowledge and most of the norms and values of the formal workplace, there was real difficulty in presenting a smiling, conciliatory face (an important requirement in many working-class jobs, such as sales), since this conflicted with the ingrained view that a “mean mug” was essential for survival in the inner city.
  
  
• Michael, who recently completed a sentence for shooting another man, said that “coming from the place where I just came from, it’s kind of hard to smile every day. Sometimes, you know, I think that it’s not warranted, but I try to put it on for the most part, so it’s still a work in progress right now.”
  
  
• On a deeper level, these ex-offenders were expressing more strongly what a number of youthful ABC participants revealed: that the requirement to smile, regardless of their sometimes deeply felt emotions, was a violation of themselves.
  
  
• John expressed his feelings more explicitly:
  I had an aggressive demeanor. I always had a mean look, but when people got to know me, they’d be like, you can’t judge a book by its cover, I’m actually pretty cool. Cool, calm, and collected. I’m pretty cool by nature, but like, that’s that pain reflected in my features. You have to understand, I’ve had a very hard life. I don’t like to be fake, do the fake smile. I’ve been through a lot, I’m hurting, I’m suffering. That’s who I am, accept it, like as long as I do my work, and as long as I’m proficient, and on time, and as long as I do what I’m supposed to do, I don’t see why my look, or whatever the case may be, should be of any importance. Like, to a certain extent, as far as being clean, I get, but as far as my facial expression, it’s like, are you serious?
  
  
• Avery, who had avoided prison or gangs, explained his resistance to smiling by pointing out that the tough, “mean-mug” look was a way of avoiding trouble: “As a guy, I kind of, like, have a mean mug. I don’t know, maybe that’s how I’m dodging.”
  

The Man Behind Critical Race Theory.

Enlightening.

I mean, this is utter nonsense. Total, absolute nonsense. Pretty much everyone knows today that race and IQ stuff is garbage, surely including many people peddling that idea, and racism has nothing to do with IQ. Race and IQ stuff is just ex post facto argle bargle to justify the system that's been set up. Certainly racism doesn't just magically disappear when white people realize that Black people are a little bit smarter than they thought previously.

Racism is an entrenched system of advantage and disadvantage, and there are a whole lot of white people who are not willing to give that up even if they know full well that Black people are people just like them. Thomas Jefferson knew full well that slavery was wrong and that his slaves were people, but that didn't stop him from owning and raping them. That attitude is what is still alive today.

good post

Curious how people stopped caring about CRT all of a sudden.

Maybe the people who think everyone else is led around by the nose by the media have had their leashes yanked in another direction

What direction would that be? It was just me and Itshot posting about it, and Itshot is banned and my most substantive posts in the last couple of weeks have been grammar related-- so I haven't been posting about anything.

What's your theory though?

I mean I wasn't thinking of you or even the thread here specifically. And I didn't think the post I quoted was nec. referring to either one of those things. I took it as a general comment on the wider world.

back to migrants for a test run.

This is all sounding boards for the MidTerms. Which Brown Menace threat can we dupe the rubes into running with in an attempt to divide the populace based on race.

Make no mistake, the leash yankers will have a new direction and marching orders as the 2022 MT approach and the rubes will willingly jump in, many of whom will have no idea they are the ones being manipulated. Again. And again.

My theory is that you guys follow whatever trends the rightwing derposphere is pushing.

And so now the right wing derposphere is pushing me to not really be posting about anything?

It’s scary how it works.

I don't totally disagree with your point. I think the ethos or perspective you identify does exist in significant force and it won't be terribly bothered by more in-depth education about the superficiality of race. Charles Murray himself, for example, would be someone who doesn't believe his own BS. He can't, and has even made some concessions, because he is confronted in arenas where the issue is actually discussed and he has to maintain some pretense of being serious scholar.

You fail to identify a concomitant perspective, the true believers in cognitive explanations for disparate racial outcomes. I think that's actually the dominant racist or prejudicial perspective as well as the perspective of the younger alt Right spectrum. Think about it this way. The racists you identify can't communicate that hey, shhhsh, this is all BS but we have to have some kind of scientific sheen on our pretext to get it into the public discourse. They are in a pitched battle and have to construct some kind of appeal to draw in more people which they think will actually change people's minds and garner their support. What is that if not The Bell Curve?

We are essentially differing about what people really believe and in what proportions. That's a difficult thing to ascertain, not an occasion to use language like "Total absolute nonsense" to describe the opposing opinion.

We've both argued with our share of libertarians and other species of casual and not so casual racists. You think they don't believe a word they say, but I think quite a few of them do believe a lot of it. And I think quite a few of them might be helped by an actual confrontation of their actual beliefs. When you constantly refuse to do that it makes it look like you have no real confidence in your position. That, in turn, makes them think you secretly believe what they believe but are more dedicated to your ideology than what they see as scientific truth- to them you are ducking. I think your assumption can actually do harm in that way.

What I suggested is not a cure for racism, but simply an answer to the question of what should be taught at secondary education. The issue should be engaged competently but simply instead of sending kids out totally vulnerable to what can be very appealing racial stories to a White population increasingly degraded by the ravages of economic inequality. When you are recruiting someone into a movement seen as extreme you don't start with something immoral and bizarre sounding. You build on what people can already concede, like Black kids not doing well in school. It seems worthwhile to inoculate some kids against that recruitment approach.

Could that be any more obvious?

As soon as the rabid, "Brown Menace" folk took their foot off CRT gas as an issue so too did you.

you might claim it is all some grand coincidence but it is because the scenes they were trolling for derps by feeding the alt news sources all their flame bait material that you eagerly jumped on.

If you were still just 'falling across' all sorts of material that raised your ire you would be posting it here. NO one doubts that.

You are not finding the inciting material as the puppet masters have taken a break from manipulating the strings. Also who you see the derps stop breaking into school board meetings screaming "CRT".

In all honesty it is only you here who does not see the puppet strings you always seem bound too.

Or maybe I'm living in a different city, playing more poker, and doing different things and maybe Itshot isn't here to keep this thread alive as much.

Do you think any of that is a possibility Cuepee?

But why do you think my puppet masters have decided to take a break on CRT?

It’s probably a psy-op.

I just checked and see that I asked for this thread to be reinstated still less than a month ago-- but I do apologize for not keeping up with the posting as much for you guys. I did however move on the 9th and have been busier with different things and have been checking twitter for the right-wing takes that I enjoy so much less often.

I'll try to do better.