Ex post facto justifications for racial stratification and disparities are a dime a dozen. It's not like the whole thing rests on IQ. Most people have even moved on from IQ, knowing it's uncouth to say Black people are stupider. It's now "culture," that Black "culture" is somehow lazy and criminal and whatever.

Some of these people might believe what they say, sure, but that doesn't mean that I think that they will switch to supporting racial equality if you show them incontrovertible data that show that Black people are, in fact, full-status people. They'll just move on to the next justification.

I believe in targeting people with values here, not idle facts that people ignore whenever inconvenient. We value equality and justice, and that's why we must fight for them for and with Black people. Facts aren't persuasive, but what you value and what you fight for is.

Giving fringe views a platform elevates those fringe views. Eventually it normalizes them and makes it easier for more people to adopt said fringe views. People who respond to Luckbox with anything other then, “lol, no, you are pro school-shooting” are doing it wrong.

Lol, no, you are pro school-shooting.

Yes, it’s this. Imagine in 2021 being against the teaching of systemic racism and it’s root causes to our nation’s youth. One of the great social issues of our time, but it’s important we not upset a bunch of racist parents, so let’s not mention it in school.

What? Obviously I'm not pro school shooting. And I really doubt being a lying dumbass helps you.

I have some friends who are out in left field. And I enjoy hearing their takes abt as much as I enjoy making fun of them. The thing about conspiracies, for me, is almost none of them would surprise me if true, but I'm in the "people are horrible camp". I'm more confused about how people get surprised and worked up about conspiracies than the actual conspiracies themselves

The two main differences between me and your average conspiracy nut is 1) they think everything is a conspiracy and 2) I just dgaf on an emotional level. I like talking to them but I don't get emotionally invested even tho my son might one day end up fighting alongside John Connor

1.5 seems very low. Not sure that's going to pass muster in the tribunals

The prevalence of different strains of racist thinking among those who can speak in public, i.e. not the loud and proud neo nazis, is hard to tease out. It appears cyclical. The pattern I see with "speakable" racism, which is largely a function of my particular exposure, is that a lot of roads lead to The Bell Curve. Even Sam Harris of the Intellectual Dark Web, after crusading for culture, predictably found his way to Murray (and really showed what a fraud he is too in the process). They need a critique less slippery than just culture and something not so easily dismissed for what it is. That's why the single parent statistics will never lose popularity among that set. But that's not substantial enough, and over time they will eventually start talking about haplogroups. Genetics has a long history of being abused by racists through different nonscientific guises, and we aren't getting rid of that trend anytime soon. As we get more technocratic the allure of that realm is only going to increase. There just aren't a lot of other routes that blame Black people without also suggesting racism is ultimately at fault and so something should be done. Genetic determinism as an explanation of the minority plight will, for the foreseeable future, be the holy grail of racists. They will be relentlessly pursuing this for decades to come.


You're not really addressing my point from before, that the White privilege movement needs a recruiting spiel that isn't explicitly hateful or overly nuanced. It's not so much about changing the hard cases as inoculating the youth with something a little more substantial to compliment the diversity programming that many youth negatively regard as cultural propaganda.


There isn't anything wrong with taking a multifaceted approach. I disagree about the impact of facts. They matter at the indoctrination level. These are dynamic movements not just all staked out positions.

And the approaches have to be appropriate to a changing zietgiest. Equality for it's own sake might be a tougher sell as our society becomes more inequitable and the leadership embrace the mechanisms producing that inequity. Values education and material conditions together compose a dissonant message. You're supposed to be some isolated, exploited economic subject exposed to ruthless and amoral market forces but hey, don't you forget to treat those Blacks with sympathy and humanity. We need some kind of educational program wrt race that emphasizes solidarity and sameness alongside all the diversity slogans. Using genetics towards that end is also a way to not cede more of that ground to the Murrays of the world. We don't want to engender optics in which the racists are the pragmatists and the scientific fellows and we are emotional ideologues. That's more and more of a losing strategy given the way things are changing.

If nothing else, your tilting at IQ fails because white people with an IQ of 90 are treated as full status people in America but Black people of any IQ are not. It's not like Murray is saying that Black people on average have an IQ much lower than that. IQ is not how we stratify people in this country. People with high IQ are vilified by the same people who think Black people have low IQ. It's just by race. Fighting against IQ is a total red herring. Look at how often Black culture being the true failure is discussed just in this young forum:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=229

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=650

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=654

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=120

This is their thought leader.

That’s a lot of fractions.

And of course there is a huge political issue with race and IQ that probably does need to be talked about but Murray acolytes miss. When we poll white people specifically, you have to force the education distribution by hand to match expected turnout because educated whites vote so differently from non educated whites. This was not an issue until very recently and if you believe the data on education and IQ, which correlates much stronger than race and IQ, you have to ask questions about what has gone wrong with white culture to produce a party that crushes with poorly educated whites but loses well educated ones. If you want to talk about IQ and society this seems like where the conversation needs to start….unless you just really want to bash black people.

Was the original quote accurate? If so the only thing undermined there is is the racist philosophy. Ironically, the discovery by racist or, at least, racially insensitive White people that "you can't prove I'm not Black/Indian/Whatever" totally contradicts the racial realism on which White supremacy hangs.

College admissions is the one of the few areas where some material correction has been offered. It doesn't surprise at all to see the response is to lie to suppress that offering. It actually supports Kendi's view, not developed initially by him but shared by him, that wherever there is any relief or counter measure to racism it is slowly erased or successfully countered by White counter strategies that defy the original measure. The most extreme example of this was the post-reconstruction reenslavement of Black people through racial profiling and convict leasing.

The Brown Menace is the biggest threat. I need to get up and vote against!!!



Ahhh memories of Lucky attacking me for saying this is an issue whipped up for Political reasons and fed to dupes to antagonize them and him being ignorant to that fact.

Good times.

I share that guys view. I genuinely don’t understand what critical race theory is so I can’t say I’m a supporter.

My condolences to our southern neighbours. It's still a nice country, but every day there seems to be a new sign that it's just gone totally insane.

‘I think we should throw those books in a fire’: Movement builds on right to target books

Had a hard time deciding if this was better in the education thread or this one, but settled on the thread that is most closely related to the roots of this nonsense. This is the place where your "culture wars" leads. People spending more time worrying they might be called racists than dealing with systemic racism. ****.

Getting elected on school boards so you can ban and burn Pulitzer-winning books on slavery is certainly an interesting way to demonstrate that CRT has no merit.

Indeed.

Just another demonstration that pretty much nothing good ever comes from school boards getting involved in curriculum.

I thought that one of the jobs of a school board is to approve the curriculum for their district. Am I mistaken?


addendum:

I was not mistaken:

From wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_education


By state legislative enactment, school boards are delegated power and authority to develop policies, rules, and regulations to control the operation of the schools, including system organization, school site location, school finance, equipment purchase, staffing, attendance, curriculum, extracurricular activities, and other functions essential to the day-to-day operation of schools within the district's boundaries.

Its the economy stupid

Shocked to find that the fascists want to burn books.

I honestly don't know how they do things in the south but in the civilized parts of the country the school board has to operate within state mandates.

If some towns want to keep their population poor and stupid I don't really mind. My kids have to compete with intelligent and ambitious immigrants and the less lazy white Americans that are in the game the better it is for them.

I believe that local school boards have to operate within state mandates in all states.

Reported your post for blatant racism.

That isn't racist you genius. You think you can talk all theshit you want about gays, trans and pregnant rape victims but get triggered by that statement. What a clown

If you took that sentence and substituted "white" for another skin color, it would look horrible to most.

I've noticed the report, but I'll let it stand because I think it is an interesting side-effect of how it is often normalized to talk about "white" skin color in a manner that would not be acceptable in reference to other skin colors. It is an interesting discussion in its own right.

The counter-argument is often one about power and majority, but those things change during the course of history, so I personally reckon it is still a bad idea to normalize it.

It's also misguided, since these views aren't only perpetuated by white people. One of the school board members that triggered this discussion by their statements about banning and burning books for example, was not white. Not that his skin color is important to the discussion about this policy at all, but it shows how stereotypes lead us to wrongful conclusions.