Notice the disparities in the decrease.

Hmmm...

You expect anyone to believe that going to college, which is correlated with an increase in wealth for all races, is in fact a primary explanation for why college educated Black people have less wealth than non-college white people?

OK, I am calling it a night. I never believed I'd get you to post something so plainly stupid.

ITT MrWookie doesn't understand two incomes typically equal more than one. Average income for someone with a high school diploma 38k, average income for someone who has a college degree 64k. Whites who don't have a college education are disproportionately more likely to be married than a black college educated person, so the white couple is more likely to have a higher total income. Single people tend to have a higher debt to income ratio as well, as indicated by my source urban.org. This is the guy whose dead set against income inequality.... he now thinks the wealth gap between a non-college educated white person should be greater when compared to a college educated black person, knowing full well it took two white people, generally, to get that wealth that significantly contributes to the disparity he's concerned about. A single black person with a college degree should have considerably more wealth than a white couple with out a college education, or racism. Amazing, really.


Edit: I'm pretty sure there's not many single non-college educated whites that own a home.

You have shown no data about the single-earner household difference between college Blacks and non-college whites, but you're still dancing around like a monkey. Congrats, bro. Have fun with that.

I did.


But this is how all conversations end.... You just keep moving the goal post, obfuscating the issue more and more.

So you are saying the reason 2/3 of black children are raised by single parents is solely because of a racist criminal justice system? I can see it having some marginal impact but it's not as if every black kid born to an unwed mother would have had 2 parents if the father wasn't unjustly arrested and sentenced.

This seems like an example of taking a complicated problem with multiple factors, and explaining it all with racism. Which is kind of the problem with CRT in general.

Note that the rates of out-of-wedlock white children have also risen substantially in the past 50 years, and obviously we can't blame that on a racist criminal justice system.

Okay, I'm gonna bite.

How is this not going to end in the predictable manner of critiquing black social structures and culture ?

And how are black social structures and culture divorced from the rather recent systemic racism embedded in American society ?


You don't like CRT for some random reason but if you've actually got to the point where you understand the system has been and still is (although to a somewhat lesser degree then in the past) rigged you'll probably start to make more sense.

I thought the death rate was 100%.

Hard to rig that system.

Racism is a principal, not a structure. Racial discrimination is a bias brought on by racism. Racism is a rationalizing based on ignorance and is perpetuated by ignoring reason. For a long while, racism was a deeply held principle in majority of people, similar to other principles that are deeply held, i.e. liberty. Not all principles are created equal. Some are bad, some are good.


I don't buy the notion that it is some omnipresent power, system, or structure.

A system is influenced by any number of influential principles and people...at any given time, and it changes over time. Which, by the way, is why I'm more of an incrementalist, and conservative when it comes to change. A more hands-off approach (limited government influence)... Because the history of the world is filled with unintended and intended bad consequences from idealistic people who run governments. Undoing something is a hell of a lot harder than doing something.

I don't anyone is saying racism is 100% and the only factor in that. I think the contention is that IHIV is saying 'these are the areas where racism is not a factor' as he is intent to say 'sure some racism is present and a factor but there are a whole bunch of other areas where race is not'.

So thus it is proper for Wookie to point out the race correlation in that stat and that he thinks it foundational to that stat.


I doubt IHIV would answers this question but it would add clarity to his view,

- What range of percent would you put 'race impacted factors' (institutional racism, individual racism, embedded racism, etc) for these discussions versus non race based?

Would IHIV ballpark 40-50% are race contributed factors or 5-10%.

So what’s your explanation?

This is actually a good question, but I'm not going to invest the time that it's required to give the in-depth answer. There really isn't a percentage I would be able to give anyways. It comes down to the variables relative to each other. For instance the top five reasons x racial disparity exist, then top five reasons they persist. The reasons why something came into existence is different from the reason it persist. Critical race theory and the woke completely ignores that criticism, and actively obscures and conflates the two.

As good as the question is, it's burden shifting. Critical race theory is making the assertion. You should be asking critical race theorists for those numbers. Like, is it 90% systemic racism, and 10% these other factors....

That would require multivariate and qualitative analysis.. which they incidentally call biased and racist. They instead focus on narratives to explain the disparity. It's merely assumed that it is the primary factor.

Do you think the generations of the cops/system looking for any and every reason to drag people off to jail might've played some role in disrupting family dynamics?

Back to the either, or huh? Yes, now what about crack/cocaine/heroin? I would argue crack has led to more incarceration of black people in the last 50 years, than almost any other variable

Not enough lolz in the world. If you're going to use the "So you're saying" construct, you could at least try to impugn me with what you think are necessary consequences of what I said, rather than deliberately and obviously stating something very different from what I said. When I say that something "largely" is due to two factors, no, I don't mean that the something is due "solely" to just one of them.

But it's not, though. Most of the issues in the Black community relative to the white community are either a direct result of racism (housing segregation, over-policing, job discrimination, over-sentencing, etc.) or are a consequence of disproportionate poverty, which isn't some sort of unfortunate accident but is instead an intended consequence of institutional racism. Are there other factors? Maybe, but no one who's looked in any sort of serious way has found anything bigger than direct racism and poverty that's a consequence of racism. As such, any serious plan for racial equality should start here and not with tut-tutting about Black culture or whatever bullshit people who don't actually want to do anything about racial equality come up with to obscure the fact that the biggest causes of the disparity are pretty well understood.

It's a discussion not an argument--just following the rules These are just things to think about. Though that's not necessarily meant to discourage the first year latin/logic--or even the botched attempts because they still have some entertainment value. And we've been well into the bonus round on that front since at least absurdums imo anyway

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, everyone must use my definition of racism and not any other! Words can't mean different things!

This part is hilarious, though. Racism is very often based on cold-hearted rationality and perpetuated by greed.

Duck, as usual, noted.

It is not an either or to point out race related issues play a role, often foundational in that factor.

Just as its not an either or to say with regards to crack/heroin/cocaine, the race based issues are foundational and arguably the biggest component of the disparities in outcomes between races.

Meaning that is one of the worst counters you could offer.

Why do you think Indian Americans or other immigrant groups seem to do better than some groups including white Americans?
Is race the biggest factor there?

Because recent immigrants from overseas tend to be fairly wealthy to begin with.

That guy is apparently a far right youtuber. Unclear if the medical degrees claim is true, completely made up or an exaggeration but it doesn't seem like he has a job in the medical field anybody can find. If the theme is he is not oppressed, I can see why he left out the fact that paetron might make up serious part of his income and wanted to let people assume he is a practicing medical doctor.

But I think this will be an ongoing tactic. Unlike Obamacare, gun violence etc it's going to be very, very hard to find regular people willing to give passionate speeches about the harm of CRT. So you'll have right wing fringe media lying about who they are to do so.

It is kinda neat seeing guys like say the --first-- black tenured prof at Harvard from just a few short decades ago and a ~120yrs after the cw saying that everything's fine--and actually if you think about it it's kinda your fault

You did exactly what you accused him of. He said multiple correlated variables are involved and you reduced that to the criminal justice system despite the fact that he mentioned wealth in the same sentence where he introduced the topic of criminal justice. Probably the one word answer is wealth; but comparative aggregate wealth of millions of people in different racial categories is a function of education, income, parental wealth, criminal justice, racism in the past, racism in the present etc.