Crime and Punishment - Page 7 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

hes not getting out, not for 25 years and probably not after that either.

what is the point of this debate? he was tried as an adult at age 14.

thats the point im making.

Ok, you seem to be making a different point in every post you make, so it's hard to follow. Yes, he was tried as an adult. No, he could not have got the death penalty or life without parole. I'm not sure what you think was so terrible about him being tried as an adult for a thrill murder of a classmate.

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12-31-2023 , 09:21 PM

#152

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

hes not getting out, not for 25 years and probably not after that either.

what is the point of this debate? he was tried as an adult at age 14.

thats the point im making.

The point was that you said someone else was wrong about children not being given life without parole but it appears that you were the one wrong about that.

No one claimed that a 14yo in the US could not be tried as an adult.

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12-31-2023 , 09:32 PM

#153

chezlaw

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Quote:

Originally Posted by formula72

Has that changed?

I dunno but in some countries kids dont have to deal with being allowed guns. Big fan personally.

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12-31-2023 , 09:37 PM

#154

chezlaw

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Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

thats bc thats the max sentence usuall they give.
theyre not as mad as the us and give thousands of years, thats insane .
btw and nonsense.

"How many years is life sentence in Europe?

In most of Western Europe, for example, a “life sentence” actually means that after a minimum term of 12 to 25 years, the prisoner becomes eligible for parole. However, in most of Europe, prisoners who are considered to be dangerous can be sentenced to “indefinite detention” despite eligibility for parole."

We also try children as adults which is obviosuly disgusting. I think Europe is generally better on this as well but I dont know the specifics by country

Not All “Life Sentences” Around the World Are Actually for Life

Sadly imo in the UK there's been a shift towards whole life sentences. That is the whole of life with no possibillity of parole. The European court didn't agree but we weren't bound by that ruling (even before brexit).

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12-31-2023 , 09:39 PM

#155

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

I think there are fewer than 100 prisoners in the UK serving whole life tariffs.

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12-31-2023 , 09:44 PM

#156

washoe

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Originally Posted by d2_e4

In the UK, life sentences usually carry what is called a "minimum tariff", which is basically a parole eligibility term set by the judge at time of sentencing. However, we do have ~70 prisoners here serving "whole life" tariffs, which is basically natural life. Those are given out in the most egregious of cases - committing a murder after being released from prison for another violent crime, murder of a law enforcement officer, child/serial killers etc. I can't speak for the rest of Europe.

Whole life tariffs are subject to appeal and IIRC have been overturned in the past.

yea ok.. life tariffs stuff is given to minors, still basically. thats all Im saying.

you made it sound like its stuff from the past here imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

They used to give death sentences and life without parole to minors, not any more after two relatively recent (last 15 years or so) supreme court cases. Juveniles can't get death sentences or LWOP any more.

not anymore? are we sure abou this? cant get?
technically you might be right, but in the real world they basically still get life, right? and now we could talk about if thats ok to treat a minor as an adult, which Im not convinced it is. 14 isnt an adult, right?

Last edited by washoe; 12-31-2023 at 09:50 PM.

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12-31-2023 , 09:47 PM

#157

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

yea ok.. life tariffs stuff is given to minors, still basically. thats all Im saying.

you made it sound like its stuff from the past here imo.

You can't read.

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12-31-2023 , 09:48 PM

#158

browser2920

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I'm not sure and can't look it up right now but I doubt any state allows parents to give kids the right to walk around the house with handguns. In fact in some states if a kid finds a handgun under the bed or someplace and shoots someone the parent is charged with negligence of some sort just for allowing a kid access to a handgun without the parents permission.

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12-31-2023 , 09:52 PM

#159

chezlaw

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Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

I think there are fewer than 100 prisoners in the UK serving whole life tariffs.

dont be fooled into thinking that's not part of a very significant change of wind in the justice system.

Here's one of the latest bits:

Quote:

The UK Ministry of Justice announced Tuesday its plans to further reform whole life orders, also known as life imprisonment, in the UK. Under these changes, those who have committed crimes and are awaiting their sentence can be given a whole life order, regardless of if the offense is committed before this legislation is put into place.

This announcement means that reforms previously announced by the UK government regarding whole life orders will now apply to active cases. In light of the changes, judges will now be expected to give these sentences “where it is a possibility[,] unless there are exceptional circumstances not to.” Additionally, whole life orders can only be terminated if there are “exceptional compassionate grounds” to release the prisoner.

https://www.jurist.org/news/2023/10/...n-new-reforms/
Maybe you approve.

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12-31-2023 , 09:53 PM

#160

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

dont be fooled into thinking that's not part of a very significant change in the justice system.

Here's one of the latest bits:

https://www.jurist.org/news/2023/10/...n-new-reforms/
Maybe you approve.

I was not aware of this, and I do not approve.

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12-31-2023 , 10:01 PM

#161

washoe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

yes

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12-31-2023 , 10:03 PM

#162

washoe

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Originally Posted by d2_e4

You can't read.

lol

cmon man! they stuck him in a regular mens prison at age 14 for life!
with other lifers. wtf?

and youre coming in hot with " oh minors dont get life and death sentences!" which is lol
they do: https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/...ristyn-bailey/

the only thing youre right about is that they dont receive death sentences anymore, the parole part is debatable.

‘This crime had no motive’: Aiden Fucci sentenced to life in murder of Tristyn Bailey"

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12-31-2023 , 10:07 PM

#163

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

Again, you can't read. Read my posts again, very slowly, and you'll discover that what you quoted me saying is not what I said.

Also, who said he was going to an adult prison at 14? You made that part up.

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12-31-2023 , 10:20 PM

#164

washoe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

thats what it says here

"Larizza said when the time comes, Fucci will not be transferred to a Department of Juvenile Justice facility but will instead go directly to a Florida State Prison."

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12-31-2023 , 10:21 PM

#165

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

thats what it says here

"Larizza said when the time comes, Fucci will not be transferred to a Department of Juvenile Justice facility but will instead go directly to a Florida State Prison."

And when is that time?

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12-31-2023 , 10:23 PM

#166

washoe

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see d2? adult male prison thats where hes at.

"– The teen convicted of brutally killing his schoolmate on Mother's Day in 2021 is now in prison for his life sentence. Aiden Fucci, 16, was booked at the Suwannee Correctional Institution in Live Oak on Friday. The male adult prison has a capacity of 1,109 inmates.25.03.2023"

Aiden Fucci booked into Suwannee Correctional Institution

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12-31-2023 , 10:26 PM

#167

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

So, he went to prison at 16, not 14, correct?

14 year olds don't go to adult prisons. 16 year olds sometimes do.

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12-31-2023 , 10:28 PM

#168

washoe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

So, he went to prison at 16, not 14, correct?

idk. maybe 14 was too risky for an adult male prison.
16 isnt much better, right? not sure where he was before that but he certainly was detained somwhere.

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12-31-2023 , 10:31 PM

#169

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

idk. maybe 14 was too risky for an adult male prison.
not sure where he was before that.

Washoe: a 14 year old got sentenced to life without parole and sent to adult prison
d2: He was sentenced to life with parole and sent to adult prison when he was 16
Washoe: (after going round in circles for 100 posts): same thing

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12-31-2023 , 10:32 PM

#170

washoe

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Originally Posted by d2_e4

lol

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12-31-2023 , 11:28 PM

#171

Land O Lakes

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Originally Posted by chillrob

Did the system actually do anything about the kid when he was 12? There should have at least been some kind of checking for firearms in the house.

He got probation and probably kept his new piece at home while meeting the probation officer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

yes, so whats with the parole bs? it doesnt even say that.
he got life at age 14, when youre 14, 25 is life, right?

No. It's 25 years.

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01-01-2024 , 10:39 AM

#172

chezlaw

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A 25 years sentence is a life sentence in Europe. In Gernmany it's 15 years

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01-01-2024 , 10:42 AM

#173

Land O Lakes

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

A 25 years sentence is a life sentence in Europe. In Gernmany it's 15 years

In America, it's 25 years.

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01-01-2024 , 10:44 AM

#174

chezlaw

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It is in Europe as well.

It's a bit of abuse of language because there's no guarantee of release and you are still subject to the sentence after release from prison.

Last edited by chezlaw; 01-01-2024 at 10:51 AM.

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01-01-2024 , 10:54 AM

#175

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

It is in Europe as well.

It's a bit of abuse of language because there's no guarantee of release and you are still subject to the sentence after release from prison.

You misunderstood his post. He said 25 years was 25 years, not that life was 25 years.

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