Crime and Punishment - Page 6 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Your earlier post makes it sound like it was known they had guns on a regular basis rather than it being a shock.

Being children doesn't absolve them of all responsibility but there has likely been a very serious failure by adults.

What if that serious failure by the adults happened to be a legal right to allow their kids to carry guns in their house? Do we not charge the kids for committing an obvious crimes and instead charge the parents for a crime they didn't commit for the feelz?

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12-31-2023 , 02:55 PM

#127

chillrob

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Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

It wasn't a shock. Kid got busted with a firearm by police at 12.

So charge the mom with murder?

Did the system actually do anything about the kid when he was 12? There should have at least been some kind of checking for firearms in the house.

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12-31-2023 , 02:57 PM

#128

chillrob

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Originally Posted by formula72

What if that serious failure by the adults happened to be a legal right to allow their kids to carry guns in their house? Do we not charge the kids for committing an obvious crimes and instead charge the parents for a crime they didn't commit for the feelz?

What kind of right is this? Do children have full second amendment rights now too?

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12-31-2023 , 04:16 PM

#129

formula72

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Originally Posted by chillrob

What kind of right is this? Do children have full second amendment rights now too?

So if states xyz legally allow for the parents to have their kids to walk around with loaded guns in the house, what shoud the charges be for both the parents and the kids?

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12-31-2023 , 05:13 PM

#130

Didace

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Originally Posted by chillrob

What kind of right is this? Do children have full second amendment rights now too?

I don't own any guns now, but I had them as a kid.

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12-31-2023 , 05:25 PM

#131

wsopfinaltable

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Originally Posted by corpus vile

Should serial killers and mass murderers be given parole , yes or no?

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12-31-2023 , 05:27 PM

#132

chezlaw

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Originally Posted by formula72

If it's legal then obviously dont prosecute them. If it's not covered by social services then dont worry about that either.

I very strongly feelz it should not be legal. Also if the guns were stolen then I strongly feelz that the owners should be legally responsible if they weren't suitably secured.

kids are now going to have to deal with it. They are both victims and perpetrators

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12-31-2023 , 06:01 PM

#133

formula72

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Originally Posted by chezlaw

If it's legal then obviously dont prosecute them. If it's not covered by social services then dont worry about that either.

I very strongly feelz it should not be legal. Also if the guns were stolen then I strongly feelz that the owners should be legally responsible if they weren't suitably secured.

kids are now going to have to deal with it. They are both victims and perpetrators

Has that changed?

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12-31-2023 , 08:42 PM

#134

chillrob

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Originally Posted by formula72

So if states xyz legally allow for the parents to have their kids to walk around with loaded guns in the house, what shoud the charges be for both the parents and the kids?

I guess nothing, if that is legal.

I don't understand the point of your question, or the comment you made earlier.

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12-31-2023 , 08:44 PM

#135

chillrob

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Originally Posted by Didace

I don't own any guns now, but I had them as a kid.

I assume that was with the explicit permission of your parents? They didn't try to get you to give up the gun until you cited the second amendment.

If you had used the gun to commit a violent crime, I believe both you and your parents should have been prosecuted.

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12-31-2023 , 08:58 PM

#136

washoe

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Originally Posted by d2_e4

They used to give death sentences and life without parole to minors, not any more after two relatively recent (last 15 years or so) supreme court cases. Juveniles can't get death sentences or LWOP any more.

14 year old aiden fucci was charged as an adult in 2023 and given life. I could give you thousands of these examples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Tristyn_Bailey

so yea, maybe they tried to change somehing but they didnt.

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12-31-2023 , 09:00 PM

#137

d2_e4

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Originally Posted by washoe

Maybe read what I wrote, then read your own link? He was given life with parole.

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12-31-2023 , 09:02 PM

#138

chillrob

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Originally Posted by washoe

It does say that the killer's sentence will be reviewed after 25 years, which seems to imply he could eventually be paroled.

I don't know enough about the supreme court cases mentioned to discuss how this may fit with those.

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12-31-2023 , 09:05 PM

#139

washoe

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Originally Posted by d2_e4

Maybe read what I wrote, then read your own link? He was given life with parole.

no parole and tried as an adult. what are we talking about here?

that hes been tried as an adult or that the death penatly is off the table for 14 year old? hes been tried as an adult, with 14! and this is no exeption, happens all the time.

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12-31-2023 , 09:07 PM

#140

washoe

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Originally Posted by chillrob

same bullshit, hes in prison for 25 years, becuase he did a crime at 14 year old. 25 is life btw in other countries like UK imo, at least in europe it is.

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12-31-2023 , 09:07 PM

#141

chillrob

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Originally Posted by washoe

The wiki page you linked does not say he was given life 'without parole', just that he was given a life sentence.

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12-31-2023 , 09:08 PM

#142

washoe

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Originally Posted by chillrob

The wiki page you linked does not say he was given life 'without parole', just that he was given a life sentence.

yes, so whats with the parole bs? it doesnt even say that.
he got life at age 14, when youre 14, 25 is life, right?

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12-31-2023 , 09:08 PM

#143

chillrob

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Originally Posted by washoe

same bullshit, hes in prison for 25 years, becuase he did a crime at 14 year old. 25 is life btw in other countries like UK imo, at least in europe it is.

I don't know why people in Europe would call 25 years the same as a life sentence. In the US they are definitely different, and life expectancy is far higher than 39 years, even for the incarcerated.

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12-31-2023 , 09:08 PM

#144

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

yes, so whats with the parole bs? it doesnt even say that.
he got life at age 14, when youre 14, 25 is life, right?

What did my post say?
Do you know what life without parole is?

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12-31-2023 , 09:13 PM

#145

d2_e4

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Originally Posted by washoe

I'm going to say this one more time. He got life with parole eligibility after 25 years. "Case review" and parole are the same thing for the purposes of this discussion.

In the US juveniles cannot be given the death penalty or life without parole, even when tried as adults. I am not going to keep repeating this, so just re-read this post if you still don't understand.

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12-31-2023 , 09:14 PM

#146

washoe

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Originally Posted by chillrob

I don't know why people in Europe would call 25 years the same as a life sentence. In the US they are definitely different, and life expectancy is far higher than 39 years, even for the incarcerated.

thats bc thats the max sentence usuall they give.
theyre not as mad as the us and give thousands of years, thats insane .
btw and nonsense.

"How many years is life sentence in Europe?

In most of Western Europe, for example, a “life sentence” actually means that after a minimum term of 12 to 25 years, the prisoner becomes eligible for parole. However, in most of Europe, prisoners who are considered to be dangerous can be sentenced to “indefinite detention” despite eligibility for parole."

Not All “Life Sentences” Around the World Are Actually for Life

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12-31-2023 , 09:15 PM

#147

washoe

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Originally Posted by d2_e4

What did my post say?
Do you know what life without parole is?

idk
yes

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12-31-2023 , 09:16 PM

#148

chillrob

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Well it looks like western Europe has some non-intuitive definitions. But you have now been informed of what it means in the US.

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12-31-2023 , 09:18 PM

#149

d2_e4

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Well it looks like western Europe has some non-intuitive definitions. But you have now been informed of what it means in the US.

In the UK, life sentences usually carry what is called a "minimum tariff", which is basically a parole eligibility term set by the judge at time of sentencing. However, we do have ~70 prisoners here serving "whole life" tariffs, which is basically natural life. Those are given out in the most egregious of cases - committing a murder after being released from prison for another violent crime, murder of a law enforcement officer, child/serial killers etc. I can't speak for the rest of Europe.

Whole life tariffs are subject to appeal and IIRC have been overturned in the past.

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12-31-2023 , 09:18 PM

#150

washoe

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Originally Posted by d2_e4

hes not getting out, not for 25 years and probably not after that either.

what is the point of this debate? he was tried as an adult at age 14.

thats the point im making.

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