Is there a point to your post? You were saying something about a modicum of civility being the ground rules?Guess they don't apply to you or others huh? Do you have some sort of problem with my post? If so articulate, rather than posting a gif. I take it you're letting the bad faith posting and false accusation slide yeah? Like I said you're not as impartial as you seem to think you are.

You falsely accused me of being a racist several times over now you're wailing over perceived lies? Withdraw your false accusations and then we'll talk.

It's not dishonest please cite verbatim via the court sources where the CP5 were declared innocent by the court.

You also falsely claimed the CP5 were coerced, please provide evidence of this thanks.

And no I already explained to you in the last thread regarding vacated convictions Mario Casciaro for example CAN be charged tried and convicted again potentially, should they find his victim's body. Re the CP5 they couldn't be retried or re charged because the statutes of limitations expired. Had ms Meili died and new evidence emerged they could well have been retried. You don't know how courts work.

Now again provide evidence of your coercion claim thanks.

Dude, you are posting racist **** in several threads. What's a person supposed to think?

Tell me again how rape victims are "fair game" for online abuse and then explain why anyone should value your opinion. Your attack on a completely innocent victim was utterly repugnant. So I'm not interested in what someone like you who makes such despicable comments thinks about anything.

You would of course never make false accusations towards other posters, like about things you claim they did that they didn't actually do, would you?

You are not as impartial as you seem to think you are.

I only made one due to false accusations made against me. I never proactively made any false accusations here. Also this thread isn't about little old me but the cp5. If you have an opinion on the case by all means do share it. Otherwise, not sure why you're posting here.

Sure. I think they didn't assault Meili and you're laughably racist for thinking they did despite all evidence to the contrary.

So? So do the McMichaels and Derek Chauvin yet I didn't see you object to the title the"murder" of George Floyd. Murder is a legal term and Chauvin hasn't been convicted yet so also "enjoys the presumption of innocence" at present which has nothing do do with innocence or guilt. The Mcmichales also "enjoy the presumption of innocence" but everyone knows they killed Ahmad Aubery. George Zimmerman and Robert Durst were acquitted of murder but everyone knows they killed Trayvon Martin & Morris Black.

This cannibal over my way was acquitted of murdering and partially eating his landlord by reason of insanity, everyone knows he did it though.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...nity-1.2303328

And the CP5 were "accused, prosecuted and convicted." They simply had their conviction vacated on a technicality. Again had TM not survived the assault they'd still be liable even today for retrial if new evidence emerged. Again you don't understand how courts work.

Please highlight this evidence. The evidence shows multiple attackers, Ms Meii had several hand print bruises on her body of different sizes proving multiple attackers. They admitted to assaulting Ms Meili and admitted it again even years later at parole hearings. Santana laughed " I already got mine" when asked why he was iurt beating people up in the park and not with his gf. This was before Mss Meili was even found. Korey Wiseconfessed over the phone from prison to his friend that "I didn't rape her I only held her down while Kevin [Richardson f****d her". Wise also knew about Ms Meili's walkman and fanny pack in 1989, which the cops weren't aware of. Reyes mentioned these items in 2002 as "proof" he did it alone. Yet Wise knew about them also 13 years earlier only a day or two after the attack.
Two of them had mud stains and grass stains on their clothes and semen stains were found in Richardson's underwear. He also had a mark on his face which he confirmed came from Ms Meili scratching him. This was also mentioned by another of the 5, I forget which one. They're also guilty of severely beating several patrons at the park. They never confessed to the rape but several of them did to the assault on Ms Meili and other park patrons and again re the patrons years later at parole hearings.

Only evidence you have to the contrary is the dubious word of a psychopath.

So again provide this evidence, I'm all ears.

Please provide evidence I'm a racist and link any racist comments I made in the six years I've posted here thanks. (won't hold my breath like I didn't with Trolly, as you lot seem to have a habit of making bare faced assertions and then running away when challenged to support them)

The truth is easy to defend so again please provide this evidence you assert thanks.

i haven't paid attention to this thread because its largely arguing over distinctions that dont matter.

i dont particularly have a lot of experience in post conviction relief beyond the general expungement level. large DA offices like where i worked have specialized legal writing attorneys for PCR due to the procedural hurdles involved. PD officers, where i also worked, generally outsource their PCR to another state funded group due to the nature of PCR appeals generally containing "ineffective assistance of counsel" claims. and as a solo i haven't handled anything beyond the common getting arrests expunged after the probation periods completion.

that being said in my opinion i largely agree with Rflush's conclusion. because a real "exoneration" like the right are saying hasn't happened for the cp5 doesnt really exist. despite them claiming that trump has somehow acquired one..

after regular appeals, habeus petitions can rarely be reviewed on the merits of the case, in order to get this the defendant has to pass a burden that is "it is more likely than not that NO reasonable juror would have convicted." which is obviously extremely difficult. its referred to as the Schlup gateway, or the "actual innocence gateway".

even if a defendant meets this standard and then is granted relief this doesn't bar the state from a re-trial. so by common sense even proving your "actual innocence" in PCR isn't an exoneration.

it reminds me of House v. Bell which was a US supreme court case where a guy was convicted of murder(1985) based on seeing him near the crime scene wiping his hands of a dark substance and having previous criminal history. AT trial the state presented bloody pants that contained blood from the victim and there was semen on the victims clothes. later testing revealed that the blood turned out to be victims however it was from well after she was dead and it had "spilled" onto his pants in police custody during evidence transport pre-trial, and the semen was found to be from the victims husband. the husband was also reported to have later confessed multiple times to local townspeople in testimony from witnesses. the supreme court concluded that House had done enough to pass through the innocence gateway as no reasonable juror would have convicted him, but still wasn't "exonerated" and faced a re-trial.

the CP5 case is similar imo. you have a confession from another party, no DNA evidence against the original defendants, actual DNA evidence in support of the other parties guilt, the other party gave details that matched other crimes of his that were in the rape, and even the hair evidence used against the CP5 proved to be not from the victim to my knowledge.

and despite what CV's crowd sometimes says, its not like the CP5 could somehow request another trial to get the magical "acquitted" status.

this is also obviously true due to the nature of PCR you already have a judgement against you. its like asking in sports if it is "harder" to cover the spread than win outright, of course it is.

i think people want a finding of "factual innocence" or something similar or for the courts to just say the word "exonerated" but thats not really going to happen. some states have factual innocence, but its mostly for expungement of arrests and charges that are dismissed prior to a judgement.

anyway. tldr- people like CV and others totally concerned with this one specific issue of "justice" can keep claiming that the CP5 was not "exonerated", because its largely impossible to be "exonerated".


some links to stuff if any of you are actually interested in reading more about schlup.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=1758161
https://www.kutakrock.com/files/Uplo...enceMatter.pdf

both are law review articles and kind of long. the first is by a law professor from 2006 and the second is from 2017 and was written by a law student at the time but is still pretty well sourced and argues a compelling point on how "new evidence" should be considered in these kinds of cases.

No, goofy. You are a US 'liberal', and therefore a racist, because all US 'liberals' are, and you are engaging in what Freudians call 'projection' -- attributing your own vices to others.

The only 'evidence to the contrary' is the unsupported word of Reyes, who is a bragging psychopath. Do you usually believe anything psychopaths tell you, goofy?

And, in the same interview, Reyes admitted initially that 'There was a whole bunch of us.' Well, of course there was a whole bunch of them. It is beyond all dispute that the CP5, and Reyes, were members of the 'wilding' gang that committed multiple pack-attack assaults in Central Park that evening. And there is, in fact, extant evidence that Reyes did not and could not have committed the assault on Ms Meili alone. We've been through all this before. But you just can't educate the ineducable, can you?

To be clear, the "dubious word of a psychopath" can't be trusted when it exonerates the CP5 but one of these "psychopaths" saying something like "I already got mine" is, iyo, airtight evidence that they assaulted and raped a woman?

I do you a favor and don't talk about Ireland, maybe you should do everyone else a favor and not talk about the United States, especially after your cringe take that Chicago looters were just 'avin' a laugh mate.

Being shocked at what I perceive to be an absolutely horrendous take is uncivil?

A serial rapist/murderer confessing and having his DNA matched with the semen = "vacated on a technicality"??

LOL

Slghted you claimed they were convicted on "false evidence" and were subjected to "forced confessions" in other threads. Please provide evidence on how their assault confessions were "forced".. Their confessions are all available on youtube please give me the time stamp where these forced confessions occur. Please elaborate on how the evidence was false

Yeah words mean things and a vacated conviction isn't an exoneration.

DNA evidence isn't required for a rape conviction so your point is invalid. Nobody is arguing Reyes is innocent the dna only compounds his guilt, but doesn't nullify evidence of multiple attackers.The confession flies in the face of the medical evidence and Reyes is a lying psychopath anyway whose credibility was roundly debunked by the judge at his trial for murder and rape.
Actually this whole discussion started when I corrected another poster's erroneous comment that they'd been exonerated. I never brought the actual topic up.

Anyway again please elaborate on how the evidence is false and how the nwere forced. Thanks in advance

You're looking at a singular piece of evidence in a vacuum.You know quite well I didn't solely present Santana's statement to make a case for guilt.Nor was his statement allowed to be used against him and he was convicted anyway. I guess the mainly minority member jury were also racist for convicting them, one of who was a member of the NAACP?
Debunk the totality of the evidence I presented reasonably and plausibly and stop viewing it piecemeal. This should be easy to do since the truth is easy to defend. You still haven't provided this "all evidence to the contrary" showing how the cp5 are innocent and how Reyes acted alone, or evidence I'm a racist. Please do so. Thanks in advance.

It wasn't you that I asked not to talk about Ireland. Are you admitting to sock-puppetry? And in relation to the Chicago looting, I simply linked to a local news report. You would have to take that matter up with the mayor and the superintendent of police, who were quoted in it.

Yes, because the preponderance of evidence does suggest the participation of others, and the court's acceptance of Reyes' boast that he acted alone created a technical anomaly.

false evidence- the hair that prosecutors said was from the victim that was found on the defendants clothes, has been proven to not have been from the victim. the DNA evidence which prosecutors alleged came from the defendants obviously did not come from the defendants.

forced confessions- the defendants were minors and were held in isolation for hours and subject to intense interrogation techniques.

btw i know you dont actually care, but of the people "exonerated" by dna evidence since we started doing that about 28% of them had falsely confessed and that percentage increases for minors. its an extremely intense and stressful event that can make nearly anyone say anything.


as tom segura says in his stand up about 48 hours. "oh you're gonna talk to the cops and clear this misunderstanding all up.... yeah, you're gonna do 25-life, have fun with that.."

Yes. Uncivil as rather than debunk my post due to your perception with a well reasoned argument, you simply posted a gif. You also allowed the bad faith posting and false racism claim and false claim passed off as fact so you'll have to pardon me for not taking your chagrin re civility seriously, sorry.



Yes as Reyes statement may have caused doubt to the jury at the time. That's a technicality. Nobody is arguing Reyes is innocent. He didn't do it alone as the medical evidence shows, such as the various hand print bruises of different sizes on Ms Meili's body. And Reyes dna was found on a sock, not on Ms Meili. So just because the CP'5's dna wasn't found doesn't mean they weren't present or didn't take part in the rape/assault.
She was covered in blood and mud so would have been cleaned on arrival at the hospital, potentially destroying evidence and dna testing was in its infancy back then anyway. If this was today with far more advanced techniques and different protocol re evidence collection, they'd almost certainly be convicted and far more definitivey. Reyes dna being there doesn't nullify the evidence for multiple attackers. Regardless of your "LOL".

So please explain and elaborate on how my take on their guilt is "horrendous" thanks.

That was when I made the mistake of speaking to you like a sane adult.
You repaid the favor by twisting my words are are now bringing the same false accusations against me months later.

Anyway if you want to go over that matter again feel free to bring it up in reasonable context.

If you're just going to get emotional and attack everyone hopefully you'll get the ban sooner rather than later. I hate to say that because I think the more people and ideas in a forum the better it is, but you really are either mentally challenged or just a bad apple. You bring nothing but negativity to the table.
If you get the ax no one will miss you for long. meh.

How come cv and 57 show up together like two files at the latrine ?

Multi accounts are frowned upon here ?

Now we're getting somewhere- remove the hair you could still convict. The semen stains in two of the cp5's underwear wasn't false.

How is it "obviously", are you saying it was someone else's semen in two of the cp5's undies?

No they weren't they were given food and drink (You can see Kory with his pepsi even) and their parents were present except for Wise's as he was 16.Nor did the court establish this so you're passing off your opinion as established fact. Please stop doing that, as it doesn't bolster your argument at all. Furthermore the jury wasn't swayed by the confessions but by the forensic evidence.

You're right I don't as they weren't exonerated nor were their confessions deemed false or forced and yet again they admitted to assaults even years later at parole hearings, I take it the parole board coerced them? As did Wise's friend Melody Jackson when he confessed to her over the phone that he held TM down while Richardson raped her?


So you think they're innocent as you dislike cops? False confessions occur ergo occurred here? Is that it?

I assume the point of your post towards wet work was asking people who don't know a lot about Ireland to not talk about Ireland. Similarly, since you don't know a lot about the United States, kindly follow your own advice and don't opine so much on things you're ignorant about.

re: your post and news reports:

Nothing you quoted, nor anything you didn't quote from the article you linked, supported your claim that they were just 'avin' a laugh mate. That you're now lying to try to hide your ignorance about American-related subjects is noted.

It's a meaningless statement. It's bizarre you'd include it here at all.

What on earth?!?!? Obviously the jury that convicted them in 1990 was working with a significantly different body of information than we have to work with now, what are you talking about??? This is one of the dumber points I've ever seen someone try to make in this forum!

Sure. There's no evidence tying them to the crime other than their coerced, coached confessions, which are wholly unreliable. All physical evidence points to Reyes. None of the physical evidence points to those kids.