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Old 04-24-2020, 06:51 PM   #1
Smudger2408
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Covid-19 lockdowns and reopenings (formerly: Brian Kemp 2024)

Has the wisdom and courage to realize that the cure has now become worse than the disease. It's time to open up. Stop moving the ball.

Hospital systems have not been overwhelmed.

Ventilators are not in shortage.

Treatments are being developed.

There is no cure or vaccine. This is not going away for four years.

The devastation of the cure:

Suicide rates picking up.
Massive economic devastation which causes depression, anxiety, obesity, again increase in suicide rates and directly impacts poorer economic areas.
Alcohol sales up 51%.
Domestic Abuse on the uprise
Child abuse on the uprise.
Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.
Michael Avenatti gets released from prison

We all did our part. We sheltered (here in Pennsylvania for 5 weeks already).

Open the office buildings. Open the hair saloons. Get rid of stupid mask laws.

Continue to monitor outbreaks and in areas hospital systems become threatened, reenact tougher guidelines.

LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!

And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.
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Old 04-24-2020, 07:12 PM   #2
lagtight
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudger2408 View Post
Has the wisdom and courage to realize that the cure has now become worse than the disease. It's time to open up. Stop moving the ball.



Hospital systems have not been overwhelmed.



Ventilators are not in shortage.



Treatments are being developed.



There is no cure or vaccine. This is not going away for four years.



The devastation of the cure:



Suicide rates picking up.

Massive economic devastation which causes depression, anxiety, obesity, again increase in suicide rates and directly impacts poorer economic areas.

Alcohol sales up 51%.

Domestic Abuse on the uprise

Child abuse on the uprise.

Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.

Michael Avenatti gets released from prison



We all did our part. We sheltered (here in Pennsylvania for 5 weeks already).



Open the office buildings. Open the hair saloons. Get rid of stupid mask laws.



Continue to monitor outbreaks and in areas hospital systems become threatened, reenact tougher guidelines.



LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!



And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.
I want to stay home and receive $1200 "free money" every month until the vaccine is available in 2022.
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Old 04-24-2020, 10:16 PM   #3
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Have fun out there bro.
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Old 04-25-2020, 07:51 AM   #4
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

If hospitalizations are going down then maybe you can open up, if hospitalizations are going up then don't open up. It's really that simple.
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:00 AM   #5
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudger2408 View Post

And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.
agreed. common sense is to stay at home until this is under control. while people are at home rent and all other bills should be cancelled. while people stay at home, they should be given a couple thousand a month to live on.

common sense.
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:25 AM   #6
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Common sense falls between both your positions, but is not particularly close to either of your positions. You know what they say about common sense...

All the best.
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:01 AM   #7
Smudger2408
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

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agreed. common sense is to stay at home until this is under control. while people are at home rent and all other bills should be cancelled. while people stay at home, they should be given a couple thousand a month to live on.

common sense.
How does this get under control without a vaccine?

Prolonged shutdown will cause more deaths than what the virus is tracking at.

Now, if there is some magic bullet that I haven't heard about, do tell.
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:02 AM   #8
Smudger2408
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

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Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
If hospitalizations are going down then maybe you can open up, if hospitalizations are going up then don't open up. It's really that simple.
No area has an overwhelmed hospital system.

One awful effect is that due to cancellation of elective surgeries, areas that do not have COVID problems are laying people off and won't be equipped to handle a COVID problem if it comes.
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:09 AM   #9
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Suddenly you sacks of **** care about the working and poor people killing themselves?

How many murder suicides have there been because our joke of a healthcare system? How many suicides happened because of the last conservative caused recession/depression (2008/9). Trump was pretty happy about that one. Called it "a great buying opportunity".
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:28 AM   #10
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Stick it to the Man op--get a haircut. Might as well toss in a hand job while you're at it. Conservatives are the new counter-culture LOL.
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:30 AM   #11
Smudger2408
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

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Originally Posted by vafongool View Post
Suddenly you sacks of **** care about the working and poor people killing themselves?

How many murder suicides have there been because our joke of a healthcare system? How many suicides happened because of the last conservative caused recession/depression (2008/9). Trump was pretty happy about that one. Called it "a great buying opportunity".
Many people died due to financial crisis of 2008. Fortunately, it was short lived and we had a V shaped recovery. The longer things go on the worse it gets. Not reopening is more deadly than the disease. 5 weeks of shelter in place was enough. Now, no one is saying to not change how business is done. In Georgia, they are taking temperature checks before they come in, the hair stylists are wearing masks and gloves, the person getting their hair done is wearing masks, gyms have shut down every other treadmill to manage social distancing inside of the gym. Restraunts will max at 25% capacity initially. Slow, measured, but reopen. Get people back to work. Enough of the nonsense.
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:39 AM   #12
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudger2408 View Post
No area has an overwhelmed hospital system.
You seem to be doing your part to change that.

Quote:
Many people died due to financial crisis of 2008.
How many? And according to which study?
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:47 AM   #13
Smudger2408
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

[QUOTE=MrWookie;56048361]You seem to be doing your part to change that.



Mr. Wookie, give me the magic bullet of how we beat COVID 19. It is an invisible enemy that will not go away.

Waiting on a vaccine is too long.

It's time to reopen. Numbers are going up because testing is adequate.

Certainly the Stanford study has its flaws, but I do believe that many more people had this than we know. Mortality rate is far lower than being reported.

The one area that would be really helpful to understand is if you can get this twice. Mixed data from South Korea. If the answer is yes, there is no answer other than dealing with it until a vaccine is developed as herd immunity won't really be a thing. Still don't know how it mutates, not will we anytime soon.

Also, people that got better, what are long term effects? No one knows, nor will we.

Not just dealing with this, like the flu, will cause bigger problems for everyone. We are at risk of losing all community hospitals to bankruptcy. Is that a solution you are comfortable with?

We are at risk of losing our credit rating as a nation.

I can go on and on and on about the negative impacts of prolong shelter in place rules. In areas where outbreaks occur, we are now better equipped to shutdown/contain and have proper equipment to deal with than we did 5 weeks ago.

Not saying shutdown wasn't the best answer at the time, but prolonged shutdown is a terrible answer.

Brian Kemp, 2024!
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:49 AM   #14
Smudger2408
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

https://money.cnn.com/2013/09/18/new...ide/index.html

Here is an article on suicide rates from 2008. Remember, economy bounced back very quickly during that crisis.

And, in that article of every succesful attempt, 30-40 more people try that.

So, 150,000-200,000 more people were that depressed over job loss and finacial concerns that they tried to end their own lives.
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:55 AM   #15
Smudger2408
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Here is another article claiming 500,000 people died due to financial crisis:

https://www.ccn.com/studies-panickin...n-coronavirus/

We can debate the numbers, but societal problems, poor economies, etc., kill people and cause massive disruption.
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:25 AM   #16
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

They don't have to kill people. We have the wealth and resources to provide for the people struggling. Instead we gave trillions to the corporate cartels.
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:27 AM   #17
MrWookie
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

[QUOTE=Smudger2408;56048382]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie View Post
You seem to be doing your part to change that.


Quote:
Mr. Wookie, give me the magic bullet of how we beat COVID 19. It is an invisible enemy that will not go away.
There isn't one.
Quote:
Waiting on a vaccine is too long.
Says who? You and Kemp? Are you an epidemiologist?

Quote:
It's time to reopen. Numbers are going up because testing is adequate.
Your definition of adequate testing is...whatever level of testing there is such that our case numbers keep going up?

Quote:
Certainly the Stanford study has its flaws, but I do believe that many more people had this than we know. Mortality rate is far lower than being reported.
That Stanford study is deeply flawed, and the notion that appreciable numbers of people having had this without ever being symptomatic is wholly inconsistent not only with the number of deaths we've had but also with the timing of them. Also, the number of deaths is being substantially undercounted.

Quote:
The one area that would be really helpful to understand is if you can get this twice. Mixed data from South Korea. If the answer is yes, there is no answer other than dealing with it until a vaccine is developed as herd immunity won't really be a thing. Still don't know how it mutates, not will we anytime soon.
Oh right, let's not just kill off 0.5%-1% of our population, let's do it multiple times!

Quote:
Also, people that got better, what are long term effects? No one knows, nor will we.
People are showing severe lung damage that could cause long term health problems long after the virus is gone.

Quote:
Not just dealing with this, like the flu, will cause bigger problems for everyone. We are at risk of losing all community hospitals to bankruptcy. Is that a solution you are comfortable with?

We are at risk of losing our credit rating as a nation.
We could try taxing rich people.

Quote:
I can go on and on and on about the negative impacts of prolong shelter in place rules. In areas where outbreaks occur, we are now better equipped to shutdown/contain and have proper equipment to deal with than we did 5 weeks ago.

Not saying shutdown wasn't the best answer at the time, but prolonged shutdown is a terrible answer.

Brian Kemp, 2024!
lol
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:32 AM   #18
MrWookie
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudger2408 View Post
https://money.cnn.com/2013/09/18/new...ide/index.html

Here is an article on suicide rates from 2008. Remember, economy bounced back very quickly during that crisis.

And, in that article of every succesful attempt, 30-40 more people try that.

So, 150,000-200,000 more people were that depressed over job loss and finacial concerns that they tried to end their own lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudger2408 View Post
Here is another article claiming 500,000 people died due to financial crisis:

https://www.ccn.com/studies-panickin...n-coronavirus/

We can debate the numbers, but societal problems, poor economies, etc., kill people and cause massive disruption.
The biggest estimate you could find is that the financial crisis killed 500,000 people over three years. The rona did half that in three months, and we're still counting, and the numbers are not going down.
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:39 AM   #19
Smudger2408
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Vaccine is at least 1 year away with another year to two to produce and distribute across 330,000,000.

Minimum 2 years, maximum 5 years, without understanding the mutations of the virus.

That's too long to shut down world economies.
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:55 AM   #20
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudger2408 View Post
How does this get under control without a vaccine?

Prolonged shutdown will cause more deaths than what the virus is tracking at.

Now, if there is some magic bullet that I haven't heard about, do tell.
You are required to show your work on this.

And you have to show it versus the reality of Covid deaths based on reopening without testing, tracking and tracing. You canít just compare it to the shut down trend line.

Some people have been discussing this for months. Sounds like you just started thinking about it. You have a lot of work to do.
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:59 AM   #21
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Quote:
Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.
The reason they are laying off doctors and nurses as they are a for profit system. How many deaths has your for profit healthcare system cost you?

There are arguments that many will die from other parts of the shutdown but how big would the death toll be if we did nothing.
Reality is if this comes back in the fall it will hit about the same time as the flu. Hopefully by than we have a home test kit that is free.Also no way we can fully shut down again economically
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Old 04-25-2020, 12:52 PM   #22
MrWookie
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Yo Smudger,

If all government restrictions were ended today, do you think Disney World would open today also?
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Old 04-25-2020, 12:59 PM   #23
Smudger2408
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

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Yo Smudger,

If all government restrictions were ended today, do you think Disney World would open today also?
Like in Asia, limited opening of shops and hotels, yes.

Parks, not quite yet.

Hopefully, Disney is working on a plan to limit social distancing. But, I think that is a next phase step after we first open offices, non essential surgeries and resturaunts to limited capacity.

Let's do the easy stuff first. Golf courses, knee replacements, office buildings, etc. See how it goes. Just like Brian Kemp is doing in Georgia.
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Old 04-25-2020, 01:05 PM   #24
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

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Originally Posted by lozen View Post
The reason they are laying off doctors and nurses as they are a for profit system. How many deaths has your for profit healthcare system cost you?

There are arguments that many will die from other parts of the shutdown but how big would the death toll be if we did nothing.
Reality is if this comes back in the fall it will hit about the same time as the flu. Hopefully by than we have a home test kit that is free.Also no way we can fully shut down again economically
I think Georgia got it right. Sheltered in place. Hospitals did not get overrun and now they are beginning to reopen.

At no point in this post did I intend to criticize decisions made to this point. Now, it is time to go back to work.

Brian Kemp 2020, actually, but Trump already has the nomination locked up, so looking out to 2024!
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Old 04-25-2020, 01:09 PM   #25
MrWookie
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Re: Brian Kemp 2024!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudger2408 View Post
Like in Asia, limited opening of shops and hotels, yes.

Parks, not quite yet.

Hopefully, Disney is working on a plan to limit social distancing. But, I think that is a next phase step after we first open offices, non essential surgeries and resturaunts to limited capacity.

Let's do the easy stuff first. Golf courses, knee replacements, office buildings, etc. See how it goes. Just like Brian Kemp is doing in Georgia.
That's not what Georgia is doing.
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