Covid-19 Discussion - Page 95 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

My general point, which I made very badly, is that the right is the anti-science, ani-intellectualism, conspiracy-theory peddling brigade. I mean, is this in dispute?

Lol so you think belief and intelligence are correlated?

I think you need to realise that some people may know all the risks and still choose to reopen

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07-26-2020 , 04:42 PM

#2352

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

My general point, which I made very badly, is that the right is the anti-science, ani-intellectualism, conspiracy-theory peddling brigade. I mean, is this in dispute?

You have a point but if you look at the anti-vax, 5g, horoscopes, alt-medicine, the more wacky environmental types etc. you will find plenty have long departed from science and often embrace conspiracies

Not certain how it adds up - but it's a lot less obviously a left-right divide outside of the usa (where it's very arguably more about politics than about science)

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07-26-2020 , 04:42 PM

#2353

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

My use of "flu" was not meant to suggest that I believe it is just a flu. Sorry to confuse. ((Background again is I am married to a PhD in immunology))

You didn't confuse, you were clearly talking about people who call it a "flu". Which is why the meaning of your posts changed so drastically between the post d2 was actually responding to, and the post where you then made up a strawman about "opening in the face of scientific evidence and recommendations" (which is a very distinct group from anyone who calls it a "flu")

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07-26-2020 , 04:42 PM

#2354

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by formula72

Do you think the govt should continue to pay people 100% of their income while we take proper measures?

You did see I said I was taking what I said back, right?

If so, and you're still asking the question, I'll answer it, sure.

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07-26-2020 , 04:44 PM

#2355

King Spew

Just average

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,220

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

This is some turrible posting.

OK...even though I admitted a few posts up exactly what you said. I agreed I walked slightly off center to what d2 started with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

edit: rereading...I admit I have moved the needle toward reopening as my Hill..... not nut-job theories as was possibly what you were trying to inform us about. The gray area may be "minimize the scope". I hear that from left and right when talking Open The Fack Up

I can't "walk back" well apparently. Did I use the quotation marks correct this time....possibly being misread again.

OK, I'm done being stupid. Have a nice day.

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07-26-2020 , 04:44 PM

#2356

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvr

Lol so you think belief and intelligence are correlated?

Erm, yes. Is this a trick question?

The smarter you are, the less you believe in horseshit anti-science narratives. I doubt many people with a room temperature IQ or above would dispute that.

Do you dispute that, lvr?

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07-26-2020 , 04:46 PM

#2357

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

And the vast majority of them are right wingers. You got the enviro-militants, I suppose, but they're the exception, and they're just anarchists.

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07-26-2020 , 04:48 PM

#2358

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

OK...even though I admitted a few posts up exactly what you said. I agreed I walked slightly off center to what d2 started with.

I can't "walk back" well apparently. Did I use the quotation marks correct this time....possibly being misread again.

OK, I'm done being stupid. Have a nice day.

No man, I'm good. I posted a bit quick as well and didn't notice that the goalposts had shifted. But it's fine, I am taking back what I said about both sides wanting to re-open. My original point wasn't really to do with that, it was, as I feel I am now belabouring, to do with the general attitude of people with different political affiliations towards science, as has been exemplified by this pandemic.

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07-26-2020 , 04:48 PM

#2359

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

And the vast majority of them are right wingers. You got the enviro-militants, I suppose, but they're the exception, and they're just anarchists.

So you claim but it's not unusual on the left either. You really think the customers of alternative medicine are in the vast majority right wingers? The 5g thingy has been hijacked a bit by anti-china sentiment which is more right wing but the oddballs themselves are often on the left. Etc

I think you may have more anti-science types then there are people.

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07-26-2020 , 04:51 PM

#2360

Nepeeme2008

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 2,913

Dr. Fauci has gotten death threats and is now under security detail.
This is the American right, or a better description, the American wrong.

More substantial financial relief from the beginning would have possibly incentivized more people to follow the guidelines, and we might possibly have been on the way to recovery right now. Instead we have a surge.
And no thanks to Mr. Wrong and his government.
Guys, just vote blue. Become a part of the solution, not the problem.

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07-26-2020 , 04:51 PM

#2361

formula72

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,315

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

You did see I said I was taking what I said back, right?

If so, and you're still asking the question, I'll answer it, sure.

I assume that you would prefer that the govt pay its people full wages and if so I would wholeheartedly agree with you. Unfortunately, added unemployment benefits could be ending while people are still denied access to their place of work to support their family. That is a serious problem and drastically changes the argument on whether businesses should be opening up, no?

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07-26-2020 , 04:55 PM

#2362

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Yes chez, idiocy knows no bounds. It just seems that it veers very much right.

I started a thread on this topic, which was summarily locked, but you can always check it out if you'd like an exposition of my views.

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07-26-2020 , 05:08 PM

#2363

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by formula72

There is an economic calculation to be made. I don't know what the answer is. What pisses me off is simpletons like smudger and nate ITT, who not only don't know the answer, but believe that they do.

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07-26-2020 , 05:24 PM

#2364

formula72

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,315

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

There is an economic calculation to be made. I don't know what the answer is. What pisses me off is simpletons like smudger and nate ITT, who not only don't know the answer, but believe that they do.

For sure.

My point was that argument in favor of keeping businesses closed while the govt correctly had been paying folks money was clearly correct. That is no longer the case when govt ceases their pay while states continue to forbid their place of work to run.

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07-26-2020 , 05:25 PM

#2365

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Yes chez, idiocy knows no bounds. It just seems that it veers very much right.

I wouldn't necessarily characterise it as idiocy but going with it, you're in part at least, suffering from an idiocy bias.

It the bias where the idiocy of those who are climate change deniers is noticed much more than the idiocy of those who don't do science either but happen to be on the side that science is.

Typically people discount the idiocy of anyone who's on their side politically while exaggerating the idiocy of those who oppose them politically. There can of course be a real bias but the idiocy bias is on top of that.

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07-26-2020 , 05:31 PM

#2366

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

You keep trying to both-sides this, but it's not a both sides thing. What are these idiotic leftist positions regarding science that you speak of? Surely if they are so numerous, you will be able to give me an example or two.

I think maybe you're confusing the fact that some people with political affiliation x have trait z with the fact that political affiliation y is based on trait z.

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07-26-2020 , 05:31 PM

#2367

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

There's an odd tradition about these parts where criticising both 'sides' is pretended to imply criticising both 'sides' equally or some sort of equivalence.

False equivalencies run rampant here. To not qualify what you mean when speaking of both sides is shitty posting in this environment and prone to misinterpretation as false-equivalence both-sidesing. Burden should be on the poster.

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07-26-2020 , 05:56 PM

#2368

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

See now you're just compounding our idiocy bias with the false false equivalence nonsense.

Quote:

I think maybe you're confusing the fact that some people with political affiliation x have trait z with the fact that political affiliation y is based on trait z.

The confusion is more yours. Yes in the usa in particular there is a partisan issue - I keep pointing it as I'm sure you recall. But being right wing is not based on your trait of idiocy.

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07-26-2020 , 06:03 PM

#2369

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

Lots of fallacies run rampant here.

You can claim the burden of communication is on the poster if you like but in the end if we get married to false conclusions then that's our responsibility. Some like to assume the worst, others maybe more like to clarify what people mean if it matters. Some also keep it on a range.

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07-26-2020 , 06:14 PM

#2370

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

See now you're just compounding our idiocy bias with the false false equivalence nonsense.

The confusion is more yours. Yes in the usa in particular there is a partisan issue - I keep pointing it as I'm sure you recall. But being right wing is not based on your trait of idiocy.

Oh, it's "our" bias now? How very royal of us.

I can't find a single point to respond to here. Are you just basically saying "you're wrong"?

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07-26-2020 , 06:18 PM

#2371

GTO2.0

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,780

Think we need to get this back on track by criticizing fat cat hospital administrators who are too busy counting their Corona-dollars to properly staff up! Just another on the long line of culprits preventing TOTAL VICTORY.

If you think about it, it’s a pretty good parallel for how keeping unemployment benefits up is poisonous because it keeps lazy people from working.

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07-26-2020 , 06:20 PM

#2372

natediggity

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 15,728

any update on Eduardo Rodriguez? hope he's hanging in there.

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07-26-2020 , 06:29 PM

#2373

Monteroy

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 16,729

He should be hanging in there, but another 65,000-70,000+ got it today with another 1,000 dying in the USA#1, so there is that. Perhaps you find that funny as well.

All the best.

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07-26-2020 , 06:30 PM

#2374

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Oh, it's "our" bias now? How very royal of us.

I can't find a single point to respond to here. Are you just basically saying "you're wrong"?

bias is a problem common among humans - I include you. Scientists know they can't fully compensate for it cognitively but at least they are aware of it and try to minimise it's impact on results. It's much harder in politics and society but we can try our best to be aware of it and try to minimise it.

I'm suggesting you should consider the idiocy bias more. That's assuming you're pursuing non-idiocy. If instead you're pursuing the name calling thingy then you're not wrong.

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07-26-2020 , 06:39 PM

#2375

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Chez, you never fail to disappoint. You literally choose the topics I know most about to pick your most fervent arguments with me. Is it some masochistic thing?

Yes, bias is something we should be aware of. Saying "hurr durr you're wrong coz bias" is meaningless though. Is your position that my bias blinds me to the idiocy on my "own side", as it were? If so, what are some examples of the idiocy to which I am blind?

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