Covid-19 Discussion - Page 3 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Like in Asia, limited opening of shops and hotels, yes.

Parks, not quite yet.

Hopefully, Disney is working on a plan to limit social distancing. But, I think that is a next phase step after we first open offices, non essential surgeries and resturaunts to limited capacity.

Let's do the easy stuff first. Golf courses, knee replacements, office buildings, etc. See how it goes. Just like Brian Kemp is doing in Georgia.

How do you envision social distancing in an amusement park? Everyone six feet apart in line? Only allowing one person on an entire train of cars for whatever ride?

Instead of people trying to tackle these absurd problems, they should be focused on getting a real amount of testing.

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04-26-2020 , 12:01 AM

#53

markksman

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Originally Posted by Smudger2408

I think Georgia got it right. Sheltered in place. Hospitals did not get overrun and now they are beginning to reopen.

At no point in this post did I intend to criticize decisions made to this point. Now, it is time to go back to work.

Brian Kemp 2020, actually, but Trump already has the nomination locked up, so looking out to 2024!

With most states still at peak infections, how and why do you think that people will be magically protected by going back to work.

You seem to think we earned virus points in the lockdowns that are able to be traded in for protection from infection. Instead everyone just goes back out there with magnitudes more people infected.

“What do we got to lose”.

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04-26-2020 , 12:04 AM

#54

markksman

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Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Mortality rate actually went down during the Great Recession

I wonder what happens to depression rates, suicide rates and mortality rates if we mindlessly reopen and people are inundated with dead friends and family members. Add to it an even worse economic collapse as people fear going to work because they might die.

Yeah I am sure it is much worse for people to stay locked down than just to open things back up with out testing and tracing.

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04-26-2020 , 12:10 AM

#55

markksman

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Originally Posted by Smudger2408

Mr. Wookie, hospilizations increasing at a level that hospitals can handle it is okay with me.

If they skyrocket and Atlanta becomes overwhelmed, we are screwed.

CNN posted an article today that WHO says antibody testing is unreliable as they believe it is possible you can get this twice.

Serious question... do you understand how the virus spreads? Not the mechanism, but how it grows?

You are basically asking for us to go back in time six to eight weeks for a do over, but with way more infected people as a starting point.

And avoiding hospital failure isn’t about just losing people sick with Covid. It quickly snowballs and people with all sorts of treatable and survivable issues end up dead.

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04-26-2020 , 01:06 AM

#56

lagtight

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If the Ruling Class keeps depositing $1200 per month into by bank account until a vaccine is discovered (preferably in no more than a year from now), I think I'm gonna enjoy this lockdown thingy.

Last edited by lagtight; 04-26-2020 at 01:17 AM.

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04-26-2020 , 01:27 AM

#57

Smudger2408

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Marksman, if you are really keeping everyone out of work until we have adequate testing and other issues resolved, going to tank everything.

We gotta deal with this. Be responsible. Wash your hands a lot. If you are part of an at risk group, don't go out. If your loved one is part of an at risk group help them out.

Keeping it all shut down at this point is moronic.

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04-26-2020 , 02:17 AM

#58

Huehuecoyotl

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Originally Posted by Smudger2408

The problem is the difference between exponential and linear growth. You can't just say hospitals are handling it fine, if we open up we'll have 10% percent more cases. With exponential growth you'll have 100% to 1000% more cases. That's why you have to be extremely careful if your cases are growing. Northern Italy had their healthcare system overrun merely because they started closing down a week or two weeks later than Southern Italy which handled it just fine. Small differences make huge differences.

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04-26-2020 , 03:36 AM

#59

Slighted

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Does someone need to do the lily pad example again?

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04-26-2020 , 04:40 AM

#60

Steve00007

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Originally Posted by markksman

With most states still at peak infections, how and why do you think that people will be magically protected by going back to work.

You seem to think we earned virus points in the lockdowns that are able to be traded in for protection from infection. Instead everyone just goes back out there with magnitudes more people infected.

“What do we got to lose”.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markksman

I don’t see many people arguing that “everyone” go back out there and that we just “mindlessly” reopen. I thought the idea was to open cautiously in phases while people wear masks, practice social distancing, wash hands, etc. Some European countries are opening up but that doesn’t mean they are going back to business as usual and pretending the virus doesn’t exist.

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04-26-2020 , 06:47 AM

#61

bacalaopeace

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Originally Posted by Smudger2408

Vaccine is at least 1 year away with another year to two to produce and distribute across 330,000,000.

Minimum 2 years, maximum 5 years, without understanding the mutations of the virus.

That's too long to shut down world economies.

Better to kill all the old people. Eugenics is economically rational provided your notion of econmics attaches zero utility to life, morals, and ethics.

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04-26-2020 , 07:00 AM

#62

Monteroy

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Originally Posted by Steve00007

You have a very rosy assessment of humanity, particularly those within USA#1.

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04-26-2020 , 08:39 AM

#63

Doctor Zeus

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the threat of a second wave is real

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04-26-2020 , 11:55 AM

#64

lagtight

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Originally Posted by bacalaopeace

Better to kill all the old people. Eugenics is economically rational provided your notion of econmics attaches zero utility to life, morals, and ethics.

If you had actually read the OP, you probably would have noticed that Smudger IS making a primarily MORAL argument for re-opening.

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04-26-2020 , 11:58 AM

#65

dinopoker

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Originally Posted by Smudger2408

That's not a bad ticket. Going on a limb, even if Trump wins a second term, Pence will not be the nominee.

Some heavy hitters wait. Nikki Haley, Brian Kemp, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul.

COVID changes everything, though. If they go with online voting, the Republican Party is going to have to make a massive shift left, resembling Obama's Democrat Party, and the current Democratic Party will resemble AOC/Bernie wing.

LOL

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04-26-2020 , 01:26 PM

#66

lozen

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Originally Posted by Smudger2408

That's not a bad ticket. Going on a limb, even if Trump wins a second term, Pence will not be the nominee.

Some heavy hitters wait. Nikki Haley, Brian Kemp, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul.

COVID changes everything, though. If they go with online voting, the Republican Party is going to have to make a massive shift left, resembling Obama's Democrat Party, and the current Democratic Party will resemble AOC/Bernie wing.

If Trump wins a second ticket I would not be shocked to see Don Jr or Ivanka run. If Trump loses than I think you see Nikki Haley as the front runner.

Also if Biden wins he will be only a one term president and his running mate will have an advantage.

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04-26-2020 , 01:39 PM

#67

Steve00007

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Originally Posted by Monteroy

You have a very rosy assessment of humanity, particularly those within USA#1.

A lot of people are still afraid of the virus. During a phase 1 a lot of people would still be in their homes. A lot more people wear masks today compared to 1-2 months ago, stores have taken measures to protect people, more people are working in their homes, etc.

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04-26-2020 , 01:56 PM

#68

MrWookie

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Originally Posted by Smudger2408

Mr. Wookie, there are no problems with beds even in NYC.

Now. There were problems. There are not now. Because of the things you want to undo. And the trendline is not inherently monotonic.

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Equipment is being produced every second.

Not enough. And we still don't have enough.

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Time for measured reopens.

Only if you value your stock portfolio over human lives.

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I'm hoping for full stadiums in September for NFL games. If not safe, then at least a way we can watch the games on TV without crowds.

Or I guess valuing idle entertainment over human lives.

But sure, please run Kemp in 2024. Opening up now is extremely unpopular, so I hope he does run and win the nomination of fanatics like you so that he can get wafflecrushed in the general.

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04-26-2020 , 02:57 PM

#69

MrWookie

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Originally Posted by Steve00007

If your idea of phasing in opening includes hair salons and tattoo parlors in phase one, it's pretty ****ing mindless.

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04-26-2020 , 03:01 PM

#70

wet work

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Originally Posted by lozen

Same reason I think they would've supported Jeb. Rs only dislike dc dynasties when they're not-Rs. I imagine they'll vote for anyone with the trump name--hell they'd probably vote for Hillary if she changed her name

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04-26-2020 , 03:22 PM

#71

markksman

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Originally Posted by Smudger2408

We should already have adequate testing. If we didn’t have incompetent leadership like Trump and Kemp, we could move ahead successfully.

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04-26-2020 , 03:34 PM

#72

markksman

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Originally Posted by Steve00007

Ah yes. Like the tattoo parlors and hair salons Kemp is reopening.

It makes no sense to reopen anything in most places right now until we are properly tracking and tracing and testing.

There is already a lot of stuff open. Some of it should be closed. Pretty much nothing being proposed to reopen makes sense right now.

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04-26-2020 , 03:37 PM

#73

markksman

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Originally Posted by lagtight

If you had actually read the OP, you probably would have noticed that Smudger IS making a primarily MORAL argument for re-opening.

He is just improperly measuring the downside of lockdown versus a normal existence and not one where thousands die a day and continues to grow.

It’s fun to discuss how many people die to depression due to lockdowns and jobless. Less fun when comparing it to a world where family and friends are regularly dying and at significant risk.

I agree he is making a moral argument, it is just fundamentally flawed in its analysis.

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04-26-2020 , 03:41 PM

#74

markksman

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Originally Posted by wet work

Trump will issue an executive order, trying to override the constitution, to allow foreigners to run for president. This will allow for Melania to run when SCOTUS allows the EO to over rule the constitution.