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Old 05-14-2021, 03:26 AM   #4001
MacOneDouble
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Right so who is for locking down at all costs/we dont know the full costs yet/ all we need to do is try our darnest to suppress the spread of covid even though we have no evidence lockdowns work/ we shall worry about everything else so long as we get the spread of covid under control by locking down hoping it works despite whatever evidence suggests it's not working is thrown at me--- if it isn't you? What's that nobody? Welcome back to sanity everyone.


Peace out.


Ps. It was you though. And in good company.

Last edited by MacOneDouble; 05-14-2021 at 03:32 AM.
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:37 AM   #4002
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

we dont know the full costs of not locking down either. Economists will be debnating this issue for decades to come and probably still wont agree even given the contingent facts, let alone all the possible outcomes that never happened.

We still have to make decisions and yes I support lockdowns although I'm appalled at the way they were implemented overall (I speak mainly of the UK although it seems fairly common).
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:40 AM   #4003
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOneDouble View Post
And to put perspective and emphasis, on the overreactiion here's a short analogy.
https://youtu.be/NrylRNt9uDk
Note how the creator of this video cannot mention covid for fear of censorship. That's how wacky and hysterical the world became.
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:41 AM   #4004
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

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Originally Posted by MacOneDouble View Post
One last video I want to share. If you can find the time. A swedish icu doctor. The whole argument as in the last ten pages summed up here. Seasonality. Politics. It's actually all included right here in this video.


https://youtu.be/mjskQpcy7Zg
Please do watch this though.
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:43 AM   #4005
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

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Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
we dont know the full costs of not locking down either. Economists will be debnating this issue for decades to come and probably still wont agree even given the contingent facts, let alone all the possible outcomes that never happened.

We still have to make decisions and yes I support lockdowns although I'm appalled at the way they were implemented overall (I speak mainly of the UK although it seems fairly common).

See above. Trust me. It's an important interview.
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:48 AM   #4006
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

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See above. Trust me. It's an important interview.
Sorry no. I've no reason to think am icu doctor is any more expert or reliable than a source like lee.

If you have a case then make it yourself and back it up with facts and/or quotes from experts such as Gupta.
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:51 AM   #4007
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Sweden the only country in Europe that got it right. The case for that is explained in the video. I don't expect you to watch the video nor should you expect me to argue a negative. The onus is on you guys. If you notice I have been arguing against your(plural) silly points and mine have been missed and round we go.
.

The burden is on anyone arguing For lockdown.

Last edited by MacOneDouble; 05-14-2021 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:59 AM   #4008
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Well here's some mortality data.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Deaths per 100k population

Sweden: 138
Germany: 102
Denmark: 47
Finland: 17
Norway: 14

They are doing better than the Uk and some others but not remotely close to the best in Europe.
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Old 05-14-2021, 04:02 AM   #4009
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Yes better than fifty percent of all the countries in Europe and worse than the other fifty percent of the countries in Europe. When I last checked. As I pointed out ITT. And round we go. If you recall we did the same for the USA. The stringency v deaths per mil of individual states. Round we go.
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Old 05-14-2021, 04:09 AM   #4010
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Well they're pretty close to the top of the list in the data I linked of the world and they look awful compared to the most obvious comparable countries (although maybe there are some less obvious differences).

Claiming a victory based on this data is absurd. It will provide much interesting fodder to the experts who will try to isolate the law based lockdown factor from all the others.
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Old 05-14-2021, 04:20 AM   #4011
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

They were bang in the middle of Europe. Comparing Sweden to the ROW is fruitless.
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Old 05-14-2021, 04:26 AM   #4012
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

You could at least as easily say right at the bottom of the Nordics and comparisons with the rest of Europe are fruitless.
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Old 05-14-2021, 04:45 AM   #4013
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Nah you can't. That's silly for two reasons or one reason however you look at it. The seasonality of covid in Europe, a temperate climate in the northern hemisphere of the world is predictable. We have been through two seasonal humps thus far. The trend is similar all over Europe. Slight exceptions, and difference in triggering of course but on the big picture it's not too much of a remarkable difference. So then, just as you wouldn't compare the Netherlands to it's direct neighbour, Ireland to the UK, Belgium to Luxembourg, we then don't compare Sweden to Norway. You can whatever your bias find what you're looking for otherwise.

Real science is looking for things that disprove your hypothesis bro.

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Old 05-14-2021, 04:52 AM   #4014
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

I disagree. I have no idea how you confidently assert any conclusions from such complex data when its going to take a massive amont of work to make sense of it.

There are so many factors when comparing countries that I dont know where you even started.
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Old 05-14-2021, 06:00 AM   #4015
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

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Originally Posted by MacOneDouble View Post
And to put perspective and emphasis, on the overreactiion here's a short analogy.
https://youtu.be/NrylRNt9uDk
I like this video but seems strange of those 2 pennies I personally know 3 people who have passed from Covid and I really don't know that many people.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:37 AM   #4016
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Unsuprisingly the Indian variant is well established in the UK now and growing fast.

Quote:
Meanwhile, a top scientist has warned lifting restrictions on 21 June is in doubt because of the Indian variant.

Cases in the UK have more than doubled to 1,313, Public Health England said.

The figures released on Thursday have risen from 520 cases recorded by PHE up to 5 May.

Most of the cases - 1,255 - are in England, while there are 35 in Scotland, 12 in Northern Ireland and 11 in Wales, according to PHE.

However, Prof Paul Hunter, who sits on a number of Covid advisory committees for the World Health Organization, said current figures were around two weeks out of date and would now be higher.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the Indian variant was now in most regions of the UK, with the possible exception of Yorkshire and Humber and north-east England.

More than 30% of cases are in London, followed by 25% in north-west England, 12% in eastern England, 10% in the East Midlands and 8% in the South East, PHE said.

Four people have now died with the Indian variant of concern as of 12 May, according to PHE.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57109660

Wont be long until we have a decent handle on how effective the vaccines are on stopping serious cases and deaths.
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:22 AM   #4017
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

So is the fact that this was a lab leak going to prolong all this mess ?

I really did suspect something like that when I heard how varied the symptoms were and how efficiently it destroyed the lungs.

Just wondering if this has actually been dealt with right now.
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Old 05-14-2021, 12:10 PM   #4018
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

So I watched your CDC announcement yesterday and kudos to the USA on not having to wear masks.
Funny thing was I flipped between Fox and CNN and it was night and day.
One was great we no longer have to wear masks if were vaccinated but if you choose to good for you the other
Its to soon what if I go to a meeting of 20 people and I am vaccinated and some others are not but lie and say they are and do not wear a mask.
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:21 PM   #4019
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOneDouble View Post
Right so who is for locking down at all costs/we dont know the full costs yet/ all we need to do is try our darnest to suppress the spread of covid even though we have no evidence lockdowns work/ we shall worry about everything else so long as we get the spread of covid under control by locking down hoping it works despite whatever evidence suggests it's not working is thrown at me--- if it isn't you? What's that nobody? Welcome back to sanity everyone.


Peace out.


Ps. It was you though. And in good company.
If you think the bolded constitutes any type of reasonable point it does not.

In any type of threat or potential disaster situation action almost always had to be taken without full understanding the costs both in terms of people lost and economics.

Whether it is jumping in to a war to fight against Hitler or racing in men and supplies after Katrina, or most other things, the exercise of measuring costs is almost always done after when the data is available.

That lack of foreknowledge, in no way, leads to a response of 'well then we should not act and instead do nothing' when the certain things is that mass death is assured to continue as a result of a 'do nothing' policy.
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:40 PM   #4020
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

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Old 05-18-2021, 10:39 AM   #4021
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

Funny how the GOP made masks a political issue at the start and now Democrats seem to be doing the same.
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Old 05-18-2021, 08:48 PM   #4022
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

This hilarious. It's like their both politicians making things political or something like that
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Old 05-18-2021, 10:24 PM   #4023
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

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Funny how the GOP made masks a political issue at the start and now Democrats seem to be doing the same.
Before the CDC announcement I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about how a year ago we had a president who was causing problems because he wouldn't wear a mask, and now we have one who won't take the mask off inducing people not to get vaccinated.
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Old 05-18-2021, 11:58 PM   #4024
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Re: Covid-19, lockdowns and reopenings

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This hilarious. It's like their both politicians making things political or something like that
They're*****
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Old 05-19-2021, 10:02 AM   #4025
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