Covid-19 Discussion - Page 386 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Says the person spreading medical misinformation and conspiracy theories. If you don't agree with "randos giving medical advice on an internet poker forum," then stfu.

This.

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06-04-2023 , 07:12 PM

#9627

Brian James

adept

Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 1,112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Rick

Approximately 95 % to 97% of Americans over 65 are fully vaccinated and probably close to 70% boosted.

If you think 95% of people in America who are over 65 are "sheeple" then enjoy your world. The majority of people in America 65+ are conservative/used to be Republican.

Sadly a lot of them are, yeah. Not only over 65.

Mind you it's human nature, the herd instinct. Very hard to break out of that.

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06-04-2023 , 07:43 PM

#9628

pocket_zeros

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,390

“I Know Things They Don’t Know!”

The Role of Need for Uniqueness in Belief in Conspiracy Theories

Source: https://econtent.hogrefe.com/doi/10....4-9335/a000306

What they fail to realize is there are millions of minions just like them, each running around spouting crackpot nonsense they think is unique. There's a cottage industry of influencers making a fortune off them.

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06-04-2023 , 08:32 PM

#9629

campfirewest

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,936

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocket_zeros

Need for uniqueness could also help explain how we went from 2 genders to 100+ in a relatively short amount of time.

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06-04-2023 , 08:54 PM

#9630

Gorgonian

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,204

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Need for uniqueness could also help explain how we went from 2 genders to 100+ in a relatively short amount of time.

Not a topic for this thread, but gender has always been a spectrum.

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06-04-2023 , 09:56 PM

#9631

5 south

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Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,678

This Brian James guy is making a lot of strong points here.

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06-04-2023 , 10:01 PM

#9632

wet work

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,260

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Need for uniqueness could also help explain how we went from 2 genders to 100+ in a relatively short amount of time.

Conservatives are supposed to be in favor of individual freedom. That means other people get to be free too not just you

Maybe since society's become more tolerant and the chances of being chained up to a bumper for a ride have gone way down people feel a little more free to be themselves

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06-07-2023 , 09:50 PM

#9633

ecriture d'adulte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 5,920

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Need for uniqueness could also help explain how we went from 2 genders to 100+ in a relatively short amount of time.

I guess you’re measuring in geological time or something because the oldest references to non binary individuals is thousands of years old.

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06-18-2023 , 05:04 AM

#9634

Brian James

adept

Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 1,112

Being Up-to-Date On COVID Vaccines Increases Chances of Covid, Cleveland Clinic Study Shows.

Quote:

This study’s findings question the wisdom of promoting the idea that every person needs to be “up-to-date” on COVID-19 vaccination, as currently defined, at this time. It is often stated that the primary purpose of vaccination is to prevent severe COVID-19 and death. We certainly agree with this, but it should be pointed out that there is not a single study that has shown that the COVID-19 bivalent vaccine protects against severe disease or death caused by the XBB lineages of the Omicron variant. At least one prior study has failed to find a protective effect of the bivalent vaccine against the XBB lineages of SARSCoV-2 [2]. People may still choose to get the vaccine, but an assumption that the vaccine protects against severe disease and death is not reason enough to unconditionally push a vaccine of questionable effectiveness to all adults.

In conclusion, this study found that not being “up-to-date” on COVID-19 vaccination by the CDC definition was associated with a lower risk of COVID-19 than being “up-to-date”. This study highlights the challenges of counting on protection from a vaccine when the effectiveness of the vaccine decreases over time as new variants emerge that are antigenically very different from those used to develop the vaccine. It also demonstrates the folly of risk classification based solely on receipt of a vaccine of questionable effectiveness while ignoring protection provided by prior infection.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...893v1.full.pdf

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06-18-2023 , 08:22 AM

#9635

Bubble_Balls

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Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 2,670

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian James

Being Up-to-Date On COVID Vaccines Increases Chances of Covid, Cleveland Clinic Study Shows.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...893v1.full.pdf

This isn’t surprising if the current vaccines don’t provide protection for the dominant variant but it does suck and it’s good to know not to bother with it.

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06-18-2023 , 08:44 AM

#9636

Luckbox Inc

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Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,096

That the vaccines lead to higher rates of COVID has been known for a while now.

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06-18-2023 , 08:51 AM

#9637

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,885

I know I was a lot more likely to get covid after being vaccinated

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06-18-2023 , 10:18 AM

#9638

Dunyain

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2023 Posts: 2,722

In fairness, as the authors address in the discussion, the reason that people "up to date" on vaccines are more likely to be infected is that the vaccines partially worked, so they were less likely to have been infected recently.

At this point in 2023 it seems in the short to medium term the most effective way to avoid getting infected with Covid is to have been recently infected, meaning having acquired some level of natural immunity. And vaccines seem to just delay this happening, and possibly they make it so when you do invariably get infected it is likely to be milder? I admit I lost interest in Covid 19 a long time ago and haven't kept up with the data to know whether this is the case or not.

IMO the point of the paper is more to critique the usefulness of CDCs "up to date" classification from a health/pubic health perspective, which the CDC itself isn't really clarifying, as they probably don't know either.

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06-18-2023 , 11:39 AM

#9639

Bubble_Balls

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Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 2,670

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

That the vaccines lead to higher rates of COVID has been known for a while now.

That’s not quite what this study is saying though. It’s saying the current vaccine is not effective against the current dominant Covid variant. The “up-to-date” people were more likely to have “missed out” on being infected with a previous variant that would have provided greater immunity to the current variant. As there is no available vaccine that is well matched, being up to date is not helpful and the people who got infected with recent variants currently have better immunity. So, the study is only saying the vaccine is not protective against the current variant, not that the vaccine is making you more susceptible to covid.

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06-18-2023 , 11:55 AM

#9640

Luckbox Inc

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There have been other studies and reports that do show that, however.

Although perhaps there is some selection bias where the people not getting vaccinated are doing so because they are already in good health.

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06-18-2023 , 12:00 PM

#9641

5 south

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Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,678

The covid-19 vaccine is safe, effective and helps stop the spread to others. Do your part in ending this bobcat-raccoon induced pandemic.

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06-18-2023 , 12:04 PM

#9642

Gorgonian

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

No, there haven't been. At least not any legitimate ones.

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06-18-2023 , 12:06 PM

#9643

Luckbox Inc

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Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,096

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgonian

No, there haven't been. At least not any legitimate ones.

John Campbell has discussed it on his YouTube channel. I'll look for it later.

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06-18-2023 , 04:07 PM

#9644

Gorgonian

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

John Campbell has discussed it on his YouTube channel. I'll look for it later.

You don't need to. I've seen John Campbell's stuff. He's a lying grifter and isn't even qualified to discuss what he's discussing.

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06-18-2023 , 04:22 PM

#9645

Brian James

adept

Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 1,112

Want another study. Here you go.

Another (well referenced) study suggesting that rather than protecting against infection, repeated doses of mRNA vaccine could lead to immune suppression resulting in chronic covid infections and replication. It contends that repeated mRNA vaccination may also cause autoimmune diseases, and promote cancer growth.

Quote:

However, emerging evidence suggests that the reported increase in IgG4 levels detected after repeated vaccination with the mRNA vaccines may not be a protective mechanism; rather, it constitutes an immune tolerance mechanism to the spike protein that could promote unopposed SARS-CoV2 infection and replication by suppressing natural antiviral responses. Increased IgG4 synthesis due to repeated mRNA vaccination with high antigen concentrations may also cause autoimmune diseases, and promote cancer growth and autoimmune myocarditis in susceptible individuals.

Lethal COVID-19 cases have been linked to higher levels of IgG4 antibodies [28,29], and it has also been documented that mRNA vaccines trigger their synthesis [30,31]. It is, therefore, important to analyze this issue in depth. In this paper, we provide the scientific rationale suggesting that repeated vaccination with mRNA vaccines could generate an immune tolerance mechanism, thereby favoring unopposed SARS-CoV-2 replication. The long-term consequence of this tolerance could be the establishment of a permissive state of the host leading to chronic infection and other unintended consequences induced by mRNA vaccination in susceptible individuals.

The conventional SARS-CoV-2 vaccine’s ability to provide immunological protection may be significantly impacted by over-vaccination. If this happens, either newly diagnosed COVID-19 cases or people who have already contracted the virus again may have a more severe case of the illness. This concept was proposed after seeing tolerance of both the humoral and cellular immune responses to prolonged booster immunization doses [112].

“[Injection] [142,143,144]) could explain a plethora of autoimmune conditions, such as cancers, re-infections, and deaths temporally associated with both. It is conceivable that the excess deaths reported in several highly COVID-19-vaccinated countries may be explained, in part, by this combined immunosuppressive effect.”

“Indeed, several investigations have found that COVID-19 immunization is associated with the development of autoimmune responses [148,149,150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,16 0,161,162,163,164,165,166].”

“[It] is plausible to suggest that excessive vaccination could be associated with the occurrence of an increased number of myocarditis cases and sudden cardiac deaths.”

“Paradox: if people who are the most affected by the COVID-19 disease (the elderly, diabetics, hypertensive, and immunocompromised people like those with HIV) are also more susceptible to suffering the negative effects of repeated mRNA vaccination, is it then justified to booster them?”

“This research also showed that immunity acquired through natural disease provides better protection against infection and disease symptoms caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 than the immunity provided by two injections with the BNT162b2 vaccine [138].”

“Locally elevated levels of IgG4 in cancer tissue hindered antibody-mediated anticancer responses, assisted cancer in blocking the local immune response and indirectly aided in cancer progression.”

“Lethal COVID-19 cases have been linked to higher levels of IgG4 antibodies [28,29], and it has also been documented that mRNA vaccines trigger their synthesis [30,31].”

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/11/5/991

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06-18-2023 , 04:37 PM

#9646

Luckbox Inc

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Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,096

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgonian

You don't need to. I've seen John Campbell's stuff. He's a lying grifter and isn't even qualified to discuss what he's discussing.

Is everyone you disagree with a lying grifter or just Campbell?

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06-18-2023 , 04:40 PM

#9647

Gorgonian

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Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Is everyone you disagree with a lying grifter or just Campbell?

False dichotomy. There are some people that are lying grifters and I disagree with them. Hope that clears up that rather simple issue for you.

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06-18-2023 , 04:46 PM

#9648

Gorgonian

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Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian James

This paper just suggests a mechanism. It provides zero evidence that it is happening. You were supposed to provide studies that show you are more likely to be infected if you are vaccinated. This one does not do that. Try again.