Canada's protests were actually pretty big but masks were worn . Canada other than Quebec has done a very good job. You had both Conservative, Liberal and NDP provincial leaders do a great job. Federally the financial support was there . I get why Florida and Texas are spiking but what other reason do you see for California? Was there a mask resistance. They had one of the tighter shutdowns.

I think the Mask thing is huge. I just do not get the resistance. You wear a seatbelt, stores require shoes and a shirt.


No ones blaming Obama for 9/11

Freedom. It starts at the top. Our President and Vice-President are both very anti-mask. What else is there to say. Of course a large segment of the population will follow suit.

I think goofy posted about this some, and I will not pretend to be an expert on California, but a good amount of the cases are in a specific area where things were much wider open and a ton of the 21-44 were partying like crazy day after day.

I get why the "its never Trump's fault" people will latch onto BLM as their go to reason, but the huge BLM rallies in Canada and in better managed states had almost no impact on the numbers. Its not like the virus is more contagious to different BLM supporters, so while BLM is likely not a zero effect - it just is not the reason why new cases in a city like El Paso (600,000) are the same as the amount in the Canadian province of Ontario (population 15 million).


Seems some of the never Trumps fault/ he was perfect (not saying you are a card carrying member - though you definitely have political bias in your posts on this topic) are cherry picking numbers to try to make what is happening in the US (literally spreading out of control) seem not that important, while also ignoring the real factors that are likely behind it (bars and nightclubs open all day / huge parties happening with no masks) while locking in on the one gathering (BLM) to suit their needs.

As I said, at least Smudgy has been a charge head first into the virus guy from the beginning. Probably not the best choice, but to his odd credit, he stands behind it. These other ones just try to dance around the issue. Just say "screw it, live with the virus and move on" if that is how they feel, and add that they do not care if its bars open - bars need to be open so don't go (as if communal transmission ends at the bar) if you are afraid. Party!!!!

If Trump loses, and hopefully he does, then while it will not fix anything it will be mildly amusing (and sad) to see all the people that were under him talk about how it was all his fault all along. No idea what some of the people here will do then. Can't say I deeply care.


Honestly, this one is Trump. He hates masks, so those in his party have to do that dance with him. Some are starting to politely separate from him on the mask issue as he goes on and on about saving a statue somewhere, but the whole politicization of masks is Trump as he enabled and nurtured that belief structure all along.

Some will talk about the confusing messages, and there probably is a bit of something at work in that they knew masks were good early on, but said don't wear one out of fear of the supply being decimated at the time, but money drives people and now the mask industry is a thing. One can even see ads for mask makers on Brightbart next to threads where people scream they will put a mask on their face over their cold dead body, without any irony.



Obviously a bit of hyperbole there, though I bet some people would say it. Lots blame him for this virus. Trump tried that a lot, but I suspect blaming China just became easier. Still a shame that blaming "geography" seems to be a non starter, as it would be fun to see people trying to do that!

All the best.

The protests were not major spreaders of the virus.

That makes zero sense.

The media says it was behavior like crowded graduation parties. You look at the protests it was the same behavior! And, we all saw the clips on the news, everyone was not wearing a mask.

When the narrative makes no logical sense, it has to be discarded.

Now, I am starting to get pissed at people for having zero common sense. Reopening the economy does not mean going to crowded parties! Social distancing should still be applied! Certain things, like getting a hair cut, you can't distance, understood, so both people should wear a mask. But, should be able to safely open most offices while maintaining 6 feet of distance. No reason to go to the beach, the lake or a party and get within 6 feet of each other. People have gone bonkers.

Little bit of common sense would go a long way!

That is the problem with common sense - it is pretty uncommon.

The President is an anti-mask guy who says open it all up (without all these conditions you talk about), and his followers do what he say, so what do you really expect with regard to common sense.

Your approach is being done in Canada, probably slower than you would like, but it is happening in a proper, structured manner, and the reality is things will likely be as open here soon with the US, except the US will continue to have 20x the number of cases per capita (and growing) moving forward.

As I have said - you are one of the few that stand proud behind your open everything up approach, but then you act shocked that people will not behave in the proper way when that is done in a rushed, unstructured manner with an anti-mask agenda guy in charge down there. How did you think it would play out?

Just look at the other pro-Trump posters in this thread. They will not even answer what they think should happen with regard to how it should be opened up, like you try to do in your posts. They just blame BLM, China, Fauci, geography, Lizard People etc. Why don't you post a message to those guys and see how they react. That is the level of common sense you will see with a chunk of the population - good luck with working with that. Republicans are still planning their convention to happen live indoors in Florida in a few weeks. Will be funny to see if some republicans politely back away from that option, but there you go -a convention in Florida - common sense?

All the best.

I think that everyone would want to stay 6 feet apart in general settings.

Protests and rallies are one off's, and not going to get overly exercised about people expressing viewpoints in those settings. It is what it is and for freedom we need to deal with it.

It's just the stupid things. Makes me mad, but I would rather let people make their own decisions and be mad then shutdown everything again.

I see no reason for any more shutdowns unless hospitals are reaching true capacity. Even then, will be localized.

The other reality is most people that get this don't really have a problem. I suppose the energy would be best spent on how to protect the vulnerable while not punishing the healthy.

Certainly, it is not practical for every American to agree to a contract that they will agree to 6 foot distance where they can and wear a mask when in public. But, that is my utopia.

Tell that to the Trump campaign. You can watch how they removed stickers from chairs in Oklahoma (that encouraged social distancing) before the event started.

Tell that to Trump supporters. They put the full impact of the growth of the spread in the USA on BLM. Of course one-offs where most people are wearing masks outdoors will have not much impact (as seen in Canada after protests), but good luck telling Trumpkins that.

A good chunk of people will inherently make stupid choices, so if you open it all up, as they did in parts of the US - this is what happens. You act as if you are shocked at this, when a ton of people were saying this is exactly what will happen, particularly in certain USA states like Texas where the Lt Governor had a "grandma and grandpa take one for the team" strategy.


People will still act stupid then.


I suspect that the Republicans will try that approach as a form of "just live with it," but good chance that will explode back in their faces just as the early opening has done that in certain states.


Well, the problem with utopia is that it is not based on reality, so maybe chat with that Libertarian that cannot build a road about a perfect society, but realize as well that your utopian belief structures when implemented get punched in the face pretty hard with reality when they are tried. You can google the Mike Tyson quote about that, as it sums up what is happening in a lot of places in the USA now.

All the best.

As much as I agree with pretty much everything you say. How does this differ from my criticism of Justin Trudeau in the LOLCanada thread? No question you despise Trump but do you think your gonna change any of the Trumpers votes here?

Are should they just be replying . Think we get NFL this Sept?

Just because they're aren't as bad as indoor events, doesn't mean that thousands of them don't add up to significantly more infections than there would be without the protests at all. When the WHO and CDC admit spread is from airborne particles as well, it will be even more obvious.

Florida mother kills her immunocompromised teen daughter of COVID through negligence

muh religious freedom + Trump's medical advice claims another victim

Throughout this, the mom was writing anti-mask posts on Facebook, and was furious the hospital doctors wouldn't continue giving her hydroxychloroquine.

You got more than gut feels to back this up? Because what's been posted, indoor restaurants are a far more significant predictor of outbreaks than protests.

I gotta say it makes me deeply uncomfortable to see someone say a mom killed her child when it's only maybe true.

I treat Trumpers like riggies - I never expect them to change their minds, but it can be fun to break down some of their utopian thoughts for them once in a while, and ask questions like "what would be your plans for Florida and Texas?" that they hate answering.

I mean it is not like any debate on this forum matters really, and one day when the mod decides he has had enough it will be poofed, so use the time left here appropriately.

All the best.

Florida and Texas should be fine. Hospitalizations don't seem much of a concern. Faucci came out and said the average age of people contracting COVID is 15 years younger now.

I think the masks are a good step. Texas demanded it and certain parts of Florida are fining those that don't wear them.

Not opening at all will cause more devastation, economically and socially. Alcholism going up, suicide going up, abused children going up. On and on and on. We should be working on solutions to open safely as quickly as possible. Should be the goal of all citizens. Going to be really sad if most of the country doesn't open the schools in the fall. Another semester of slower development (emotional and educational) for our youngsters.

Well, car crashes are going down.

Anyway, when do you say Florida and Texas are not doing "fine?" You are literally the only one who even gives any specifics (most others just do hit and run posting of cherry picked data and avoid this topic). What would cause you to evaluate those states and decide - hmm, maybe they aint doing so good after all. I assume total numbers of cases are irrelevant to your assessment?

If that happens, and things get bad (even to your definitions) what should they do at that time? Think this Republican convention should take place? After all, Florida is doing fine.

All the best.

Total cases is irrelevant to what we are trying to achieve. Hospitalizations is what flattening the curve was about.

Certainly, I would like to see total cases go down. If they go down, all hospitals will be safe. But, flattening the curve was not about waiting for a vaccine it was about slowing the spread so the hospital system could absorb the problem. I don't see hospital systems having serious problems. If I were in Houston, I would be concerned and perhaps revert some opening policies.

So your position is that since everyone will get it just get it already, and meh, who cares what happens, it will happen anyway?

Let me toss out some theoretical math for you to consider and likely ignore. Let us pretend Trump embraced this in the way that Canada did. A coordinated effort on the federal and provincial (similar to state) and municipal level that did not politicize this virus. Masks were not demonized etc. The curve has been crushed in Canada, whereas in the USA #1 its out of control, so safe to assume that if Trump adopted the Canadian approach the numbers of cases would have been down a lot. Even you would agree on that.

OK, with that done, the next question would be - will someone who got this in April be in the same situation as an identical person who gets it in November or April 2021? You think there will be some treatments in place? If so, then wouldn't people rather get this at a later time when the effects can be mitigated in a greater manner, so you have fewer deaths and fewer people taking months to recover? That ignores if a vaccine that is developed that is even partially effective. Think of this as a variation of AIDS - would you like to get that in the 1980s with the available treatments or in 2020? Think some people that died from it in the 80s and 90s would be around if they got it a decade later?

There you go - fewer people getting it when getting it is more lethal and troublesome = fewer people dead and with lingering disabilities. You agree or disagree with this math?

Anyway, if the charge into it since we are all getting it anyway is your position - that's fine, at least you seem to be willing to stand behind your inane beliefs, whereas most others that share yours are doing their silly dance, so props on that.

All the best.

Position is, if hospital systems aren't being overwhelmed, things can be opened.

Shutdown causes unnecessary death and hardship as well.

Where hospital systems are on verge of having problems, they need to reinforce shutdowns. Play whack a mole.

Lol. Reopening causes the hospital problems, the hospital problems don't pop up randomly. I'm not sure why you think there is some inherent tension between people closing down and not opening up the economy vs containing the virus. In Texas the governor removed the ability of cities to close down, he opened it up, and now he's closing it back down. It's the inevitability of the virus and not being smart about opening up, not some Democratic decision that's keeping the economy closed

Yes, but the whole country opened up and there are no hospital problems.

As hospital problems pop up, we have to go to localized shut downs.

Hospitalizations are up, severely, in many areas. Hospitalizations are also a lagging indicator. Meaning that if you wait for hospitals to fill then you'll continue to overrun your hospitals, probably by for a couple weeks, until you get a slowdown.

Also, you're just wrong about what flattening the curve means. While the immediate priority was to stop hospitals from being overrun, that wasn't the only goal either. A flattened curve looks like every other country, not ours.

Hospitals can reconfigure. A hospital at full capacity for ICU, doesn't mean they can't put beds in other areas.

You have a 20-25% buffer beyond full capacity.

Any area that is pushing on normal capacity (not the buffer) should immediately revert to shutdown. Houston is doing that now. They think they have two weeks till normal capacity is reached. Probably gives them 3-4 weeks to address the problem.

Whack a Mole

The problem is not just beds, it's staff. You can manufacture new beds; nurses and doctors, not so much.

When the states stopped elective surgeries (other than abortion, thank you Gretchen Whitmer), alot of nurses and doctors were laid off.

Shouldn't be a problem to staff up.