The bolded is a Category Fallacy.

It would perhaps be more on point to say that "30%* of U.S. citizens disagree with the majority opinion of scientists on certain issues."

*I have no idea if the "30%" is accurate; for the purposes of this discussion, I will concede it's accuracy.

That very much reads like a distinction without a difference. If that is genuinely how they are justifying it to themselves, I'd argue that they are still morons.

There are good reasons and there are bad reasons for questioning a consensus on any given scientific theory/explanation/projection, etc.

Scientists can be as agenda driven (if not more so) than a clerk at Seven Eleven.

"He who pays the piper, calls the tunes."

(Hoping that the above quote won't be construed as a racial or ethnic or whatever slight by the Perpetually Indignant.)

Individually, sure, but when there is enough agreement to claim a consensus I would argue that denying that is pure conspiracy theory nonsense.

Hhaha love me some Sweden slappy action.

Have you looked at how terribly Sweden is doing compared to every country you can directly drive into it from?

Norway is as open as Sweden is now.

Without all the deaths.

Because they had a lockdown, and implemented track and trace they can control the incident of C19 that still exist in the community, because its at a low low low level.

If you can reduce community presence of c19 you can manage it till a vaccine arrives.

It's problem.

Actual data on Sweden here showing it isnt all roses

Dwarfed by some much bigger countries in pure death totals is a bit disingenuous.

Sweden has way more per capita deaths than the USA and fwiw stats Brazil.

You are moving the goalpost.

Yes the lock downs were about saving hospital capacity, SO WE COULD SAVE LIVES.

I work in the service industry. In the two weeks before the lock downs began we lost 70% of our business. We were losing more money staying open then if we just closed.

The lock downs did not ruin the economy consumer behavior did. And part of the logic of the lock down was to control the virus so consumers would feel safe to go out and public again in the future.

If you want to make the argument that the lock down was a worse outcome then not locking down then fine. But don't pretend that not locking down would not have a produced major economic contraction.

Its complicated data and comprehensive. I don't think they lie about anything but yeah, I hope they keep adding in comparators.

You've been repeating this position of yours, that people pointing out statements that can be construed as racist are somehow unfairly indignant or whatever. Seems like projection, preacher. Look within.

The lockdowns had a pretty big effect on consumer behavior no?

Your response to my joke (note the smiley in my post) kinda makes my point.

If YOU look within, you might discover that YOU are one of the Perpetually Indignant.

It's no longer just a joke the tenth time you repeat it. I'm fine with your label about being indignant towards harmful racist statements. You would rather comfortably laugh it away. Care to share some of your thoughts again on practising gays, Mr. bible-based indignation.

Not in places that didn't lock down.

I am strongly opposed to any and all ACTUAL racist language.

I am not permitted to discuss sodomy in this Forum .

We can discuss it in RGT if you want.

Have a good day!

Random anecdotes from TX, where pretty much everything is open and mask reqs are on a business by business situation:

-Went to an outdoor restaurant for the first time. Never stepped foot inside, no menus, disposable everything, lots of space, seemed pretty safe. Still had a lot of anxiety just sitting there with all the employees in masks

-Wife’s company had people come back to work last Monday. Two positives by Thursday and they sent everyone home again. What do “open up” people suggest to do in that situation other than shut it down?

-MIL is a labor and delivery nurse. Had their first patient who gave birth while COVID positive last week, seemed fine initially, but then passed away from respiratory issues on Sunday. Early 30s and no other health issues. Baby has it, so the dad spent his first Father’s Day learning his wife had died and not really being able to see his kid. Sad stuff.

Let people and businesses make their own decisions obviously.

That's not that obvious. What does letting people make their own decisions in regards to the pandemic do?

Don't worry, the strong will survive.

That is already the situation currently. There are no statewide stay at home orders or workplace requirements.

I mean, what other suggestion is there besides stopping a return in an office environment when multiple people are confirmed to have it.

Contrary to partisan belief, most people are not going to risk staying in a virus box very long. Human behavior has always been the driving factor.

It makes the total failure by the administration on mask wearing and even worse debacle on testing that much worse.

Almost everything could be headed back to relative normality if ANY other person were the president. The silver lining is Trump’s actions are going to cause the economy to implode further and could get him out for good. I am just not keen on sacrificing 100k MORE lives and the fallout from a historic economic collapse just because the President is a giant, narcissistic baby.

Trump is going to absolutely be roasted for 2020 in the history books.

My hope is Biden wins so Trump’s death march of Americans can be reined in. But so many deaths will occur between now and January that were wholly preventable.

I live in DFW. The two biggest counties here are busting records every single day. Just like the rest of Texas, just like Florida and Arizona.

There is no magic means of not getting hit by the virus if you do not take the necessary steps to prevent spread. Any place that hasn’t been hit yet has just been lucky. Again no magic.

It is frustrating as a person of reason and logic, that are very clear set of procedures have proven to be highly effective and not only does my government refuse to do any if it, they actively campaign against all those steps.

I do not understand how some people can look at themselves in the mirror when they continue to aid and abet this murderous series of actions and inactions. Is it for a $50 tax break? Is it because you don’t want babies to be aborted? Is it because you got tired of hiding your racism and now you can let it fly? Is it simply to own the libs? There is not really any there there.

Why do people here think there is still support for Trump, in light of what He is doing/ not doing, especially and specifically his handling of Covid. I can not think of a comparable event in my lifetime.

Pretty cool that Florida wants to do shenanigans to make the ICU bed utilization lower than it really is.

Good job Florida.

The problem isn’t the virus in Florida, the problem is they were counting everyone in an ICU bed as being in an ICU bed.

https://floridapolitics.com/archives...-icu-reporting

The death rate is 100%.

Are you arguing for no public policy at all regarding anything ?

That seems barbaric even for a dull witted conservative.