Its deeper than that if you really pay attention.

No, but I disagree with you that the campaign effort boosted sales.

This is going to be the better approach than the "omg what could you possibility be seeing in Dylan that's anything less than her authentic truth" that Uke has been using.

Given that the ad was originally a sponsored post on Dylan's instagram feed it meant it would have gone out to her followers. Advertising to targeted demographics is completely standard in the industry just as in my social media presence I do sponsored ads for companies targetting my demographic. Were it not for the anti-trans far right bigots having a conniption at the mere concept that a trans person was visible in an ad to her own followers, there wouldn't have been a drop of sales.

I don't think its reasonable to expect anything but a drop in sales for such a product campaign for for beer. And you have quoted me suggesting that you are unable to acknowledge the truth of this. The bolded doesn't change that.

Why would bud light take on a campaign that would obviously turn off their main customer segment? Do you want to argue bud light acts for the moral good?

We all know that's not what the conniption was about. If a brand you liked ran a sponsored ad on Tucker Carlson's Instagram feed would you just shrug it off and consider it only for his audience?

lol, Tucker has had advertisers supporting his national cable news show every day for years, no one gave a rip. Does his current Yootoobe channel have any sponsorship deals? I genuinely don't know and don't care.

Of course we all try to pick up on cues to evaluate things in other people but you weren’t commenting on the sincerity of this person’s smile, rather its reflection of gender. Your point was that that smile was an obviously non-feminine smile. I still have no clue by what criteria you’ve decided this because it’s not obvious to me or several other people in this thread. I strongly suspect it’s that you doubt this person’s transgender bona fidas and are creating evidence out of thin air to justify it.

We don’t know her authentic truth isn’t being a flamboyant narcissist who happens to be trans. I’d say we have pretty strong evidence it is, which wouldn’t make her any more objectionable than a ton of other people in media.

Ur straw-manning...


You believe that I believe this person is genuine in their efforts and appearance? Do you believe these are 'woman' traits dylan is exhibiting?

I think they are narcissistic traits and that in the future dylan will admit he was just faking it for the attention and curiosity of it all.

These things don't go together in the context of the conversation. We aren't having this conversation about trans people in general. We aren't saying they are all narsisistic.

The relevant point here is that I don't have to play the reality game of a narcissist. They can choose to live whatever reality they want to. But I should have no moral or legal obligation to participate in their narcissism.

"But I'm trans so you have to"

It doesn't change things. This is why the whole thing is silly.

I don’t know why anyone would trust your “read” and believe you are able to discern anything from a still taken from a video post. You were not even smart enough to attack her for claiming she was going to “normalize penile bulge in women’s fashion leather shorts.”

Fair point

Firstly, what on earth do you mean that you disagree with me that it boosted sales? Can you find me ever even slightly suggesting that it did boost sales? I don't think I've ever commented on this.

Secondly, please look at the below and tell me what I misinterpreted.

No, you’re just goal post shifting now. This quote is about gender characteristics of a smile:



Neither I nor you know if that person’s smile is a trait of a woman. I also don’t believe you have genuine reason to believe this person’s narcissism, such that it exists, extends to faking a transgender identity rather than just run of the mill influencer stuff.

So? A Tik-Tok celebrity is seeking attention, who ****ing cares? I'd tell you to change the channel but you aren't even following her channel so I don't know what to tell you here. I'm sorry a person on the internet wasn't "authentic" enough for you.

I didn’t say we were talking about all trans people. I don’t really know why you have to continually complicate the conversation with things you or I haven’t said or meant.


Wrong when your attack on their character is based on their gender identity with no evidence whatsoever that that aspect of their identity is intentionally faked. We can agree to disagree about whether it’s okay to be a bigot but just be honest about what you’re doing. You can’t shield yourself from criticism by claiming someone is a fraudulent narcissist without actually offering proof and if you don’t have proof, you’re engaging in bigotry.

It's easy to see with hindsight that the pure bigotry and vile hatred of trans people on the american right would make a viral moment out of this to harm sales. It is repulsive that this is true, but with hindsight sure. However, all sorts of brands do all sorts of targeted advertising, and this is hardly the first time a company during Pride month has sponsored an LGBT person on social media. That is, it is hard to know in advance that this specific sponsored instagram ad would be the thing that would set of the viral firestorm of hatred even if you know viral firestorms of hatred are possible.

All we can do is call out the sickening bigots who would be so offended over such a benign thing as basic inclusion and visibility of trans people in advertising.

Indeed. I take it as granted social media megastars are in general much higher on trait narcissism than the general population. However, to specifically focus on attacking a trans social media celebrity for being narcissistic is where it becomes transphobic.

My apologies I didn't think your question was sincere...
They didn't have to tell dylan to pretend to be trans for years in order to have found dylan and planted them as an exploit, sorry that seems like a basic error in reasoning to me. It didn't come across as sincere.

You are off topic from any point I have made. You don't have to make this apology either, it happens all the time that celebrities are shown to be unauthentic.

Well firstly, for you to make such a statement you need a definition of woman to replace the word woman. Thats how words work so replace it, 'Neither I nor you know if that person’s smile is a trait of a ..... [definition of woman]'

I haven't shifted the goalpost you have misunderstood my question.

Its certainly just my read. But how is it transphobic if I only feel this way about some trans celebrities?

Its not no evidence whatsoever. Its a normal everyday probabilistic based read. A very critical component of living in society and based on everything I have seen an know about the celebrity. Its not a trans thing. Its something we do with everyone we come across. I don't believe dylan is being genuine. And I think a lot of people don't. I don't think you think he is either. I'd like you to state whether you do or not (it wouldn't be fair of you to call me a bigot if you can't outright say you think dylan is being genuine).

I think there is a different concern. I think there is a growing faction of people that are choosing to stop critically thinking and then using such ignorance to fuel their conviction that they simply have the higher moral ground. So many people in here want to call me a bigot, without truly understanding what I mean to convey. Thats a special type of bigotry.

You want proof of what? Proof dylan is a narcissist? thats ****ing obvious.
No you want proof that dylan isn't actually trans? That's not the argument here. People want to argue that you MUST take it at face value. And of course that doesn't stand up to proper reason. It only makes sense in a vacuum (otherwise you must refer to me as 'frog-self' or you are a bigot).

You want to say because I'm questioning a trans persons intentions I'm transphobic. Thats a special kind of bigotry.

So then what does the phrase "planted them as an exploit" actually mean? Are you saying that some other beer company pushed her profile to Bud Lite just hoping they would jump at the chance to advertise with a trans influencer?

Apparently your sincerity sensors are broken since you didn't realize that I met my question sincerely (I just don't know what you're actually suggesting occurred). Maybe you're not correct about Dylan as well? Maybe you're not so good at understanding other people's motivations?

Yes more so this. That someone figure out they could push this agenda and that someone was actually a competitor or a disgruntled employee.

Certainly. Obviously I can be wrong in this regard right? Obviously right? LDO! OBVIOUSLY!

We've lost ability to think and make probabilistic based decisions!

Are you really this incapable of reading and understanding other people's posts? No one's telling you that you must take anything at face value. You can believe what you want to believe. The argument here is that you shouldn't just assume they're lying based on nothing more than your own intuition, spidey-sense, or whatever it is you're using, and then go around on forums and say stupid **** like this:

If you don't want to be called out and asked to provide proof, then don't make declarative statements like this that are based on nothing more than your feels.