The costs of trans visibility - Page 225 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

At what point do the preferences of actual women and girls come into the equation? If a woman (maybe with a history of being sexually harassed or molested) says she doesn't feel comfortable with biological men in her spaces, who are you to tell her that she's wrong?

Why shouldn't women have the right to have a (biological) female only space if they want it?

Never, the freedom of people who don't want to associate with someone doesn't exist in his framework

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03-19-2024 , 02:38 PM

#5602

Luciom

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Originally Posted by jjjou812

What qualifies as professional level swimming in your mind? Do you have any evidence that any sport has suffered a loss of thousands of participants because of a transgender athlete?

Approximately being able to live doing that, not on top of another job.

As I said for the hypothesis of declined participation I am not sure we can measure that, also because afaik swimming was losing participants anyway and I think COVID in general did it's part as well, so we are in a heavy-confounders situation

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03-19-2024 , 02:46 PM

#5603

jjjou812

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Originally Posted by Luciom

What? Can you name a single professional swimmer?

So, you are not able to show any sport with declining participation because of a transgender athlete, not even, as you guessed, thousands of female swimmers.

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03-19-2024 , 03:06 PM

#5604

Trolly McTrollson

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Originally Posted by Luciom

If we end up with 15 Lia Thomases in 15 different individual sports that could totally destroy women interest in playing those sports competitively.

Yeah one cool fact about women's sports is that we do not in fact have 15 Lia Thomases destroying all of competitive sport and all of these hysterical fears seem overblown.

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03-19-2024 , 03:11 PM

#5605

Jackontheturn

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Some of these arguments are seriously off the deep end (pardon the pun). Who cares if there are 50 men competing in women's swimming or only 1? The point is the number should be zero.

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03-19-2024 , 03:12 PM

#5606

57 On Red

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Yeah one cool fact about women's sports is that we do not in fact have 15 Lia Thomases destroying all of competitive sport and all of these hysterical fears seem overblown.

We don't have 15 Lia Thomases, but we do have 16 female athletes suing the NCAA over its misogynist policy, and that inevitable pushback, occurring everywhere all the time, against a ludicrous ideology, is why we don't have 15 Lia Thomases.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dozen-fema...y?id=108185214

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03-19-2024 , 03:15 PM

#5607

coordi

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Originally Posted by Jackontheturn

Some of these arguments are seriously off the deep end (pardon the pun). Who cares if there are 50 men competing in women's swimming or only 1? The point is the number should be zero.

Except the absolute number is in the hundreds (thousands?) and wasn't an issue until CeCe, which wasn't that big of an issue because it was division II, then wasn't an issue again until Lia.

Nobody cares if trans people participate in sports, they only care if they win

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03-19-2024 , 03:17 PM

#5608

Trolly McTrollson

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Originally Posted by 57 On Red

Wow sounds like another thing for no one to give a **** about.

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03-19-2024 , 03:23 PM

#5609

coordi

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Originally Posted by 57 On Red

I wonder how many lawsuits the NCAA has against it from its athletes at any given time

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03-19-2024 , 03:23 PM

#5610

chillrob

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Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

There’s the kind of thinking that would actually destroy society.

Destroy what parts of society? It wouldn't bother me in the least.

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03-19-2024 , 03:30 PM

#5611

chillrob

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Originally Posted by sublime

there is a very strong likelihood in these scenarios that innocent people are going to be killed. there is almost a guarantee that someone young, dumb, but still basically not a threat to the world will be killed.

I don't cry when dumb people get killed.

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03-19-2024 , 03:30 PM

#5612

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackontheturn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

Never, the freedom of people who don't want to associate with someone doesn't exist in his framework

I didn't actually prescribe any laws at all.

If you want to know women's preferences you could let them vote on it. They vote a lot better than men do on these issues generally.

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03-19-2024 , 03:33 PM

#5613

coordi

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Originally Posted by chillrob

I don't cry when dumb people get killed.

You think only dumb people participate in peaceful protesting?

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03-19-2024 , 03:40 PM

#5614

chillrob

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Originally Posted by coordi

You think only dumb people participate in peaceful protesting?

No, that's just who sublime said was likely to get killed. I agree with Luciom that anyone with a brain could easily leave the protest if anyone started getting violent, or not go to begin with if it seems like the kind of thing likely to get violent.

Personally I think only people who like wasting their time and have nothing better to do participate in peaceful protesting. But I think it extremely rare that anything planned as a "peaceful protest" would become violent. Most of the violence done at protests has been planned to happen by the organizers.

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03-19-2024 , 03:47 PM

#5615

Luciom

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Yeah one cool fact about women's sports is that we do not in fact have 15 Lia Thomases destroying all of competitive sport and all of these hysterical fears seem overblown.

Sure but given it's obvious Lia Thomases shouldn't exist at all to begin with, let's have them compete with their biological peers and not with women.

Notice how magically this is never an issue for female-to-male trans, I wonder why

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03-19-2024 , 03:48 PM

#5616

ganstaman

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Originally Posted by Luciom

a source that claims that sexual assault is super rare (in general, well before discussing trans issues) should be tossed away as complete garbage (on any topic) given this (and this is a pro-trans-activist bathroom policies BECAUSE sexual assaults are very common, and they think they can reduce them a tad for trans by allowing them to use the bathroom of their choice)

Of all students surveyed, 1 out of every 4, or 25.9%, reported being a victim of sexual assault in the past year.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hs...exual-assault/

I'm almost positive that statistic of 1 in 4 students being the victim of sexual assault is from a sample of trans and non-binary kids. The numbers are lower for cisgender students.

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03-19-2024 , 03:48 PM

#5617

Luciom

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Originally Posted by chillrob

I used to think the same because usually what we heard were overblown ridiculous claims of basic rights being denied when in general people just wanted more money their way and protested for that.

But when western states introduced and implemented the worst violations of basic rights of the whole population on western peacetime history because a Chinese cold had arrived in the west, I understood there can be a case for protests.

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03-19-2024 , 03:57 PM

#5618

browser2920

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I moved the marxist discussion to boc also. Good discussion but not on topic and over 40 posts so it got moved.

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03-19-2024 , 04:05 PM

#5619

Luciom

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Originally Posted by browser2920

I moved the marxist discussion to boc also. Good discussion but not on topic and over 40 posts so it got moved.

Can I keep referring to trans activism as a Marxist endeavor whenever I feel it makes sense to do so, or would those posts be moved as well?

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03-19-2024 , 04:54 PM

#5620

coordi

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Originally Posted by Luciom

Shouldn’t exist in the context of what?

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03-19-2024 , 05:01 PM

#5621

Luciom

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Originally Posted by coordi

Shouldn’t exist in the context of what?

Of female sports obviously, which is the context we were talking about.

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03-19-2024 , 06:46 PM

#5622

coordi

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Originally Posted by Luciom

Of female sports obviously, which is the context we were talking about.

And the issue is all trans people in sports? Is Lia singled out to show the pitfalls of any trans people being allowed to participate in sports?

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03-19-2024 , 06:51 PM

#5623

Luciom

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Originally Posted by coordi

And the issue is all trans people in sports? Is Lia singled out to show the pitfalls of any trans people being allowed to participate in sports?

Uh? Trans people should ALL be allowed to participate in sports and any policy forbidding that would be outrageous.

They just have to compete with their biological peers.

Men to female trans should be allowed, OBVIOUSLY, to compete in men sports, anyone disagreeing is a very bad person.

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03-19-2024 , 06:52 PM

#5624

browser2920

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Originally Posted by Luciom

Can I keep referring to trans activism as a Marxist endeavor whenever I feel it makes sense to do so, or would those posts be moved as well?

That's fine. It was the 40 or so posts about what is Marxism, what is cultural marxism, most of which had no mention of or connection to the transgender topic that I moved.