You still havent addressed how the new laws would have prevented this in any way. What loophole was closed. Under the new law, trans men, who outwardly appear the same as cis men, ie mens clothes, mens haircuts, etc, are required by the new laws to use the womens restroom or else they are committing a crime.

So under the new rules, cis women would be told to expect to see people who appear to be men in their restrooms, but not to worry because they are actually females. So now the cis male predator doesnt even have to put on the skirt as a disguise. He can simply stroll in wearing mens clothes because now the law requires some people who wear mens clothes to use the womens bathroom.

Seems to me that rather than closing a loophole it is creating a huge loophole.

I get busy for 1 day and you consider that ghosting? Should we all agree to not ask questions unless we can guarantee we have sufficient time to read answers in the 24 hours that follow, instead of maybe a day or 2 later?

this is basic common sense

if men can freely go into women's bathrooms without consequence they'll start feeling an ease and comfort with that over time


things develop gradually, if the initial exploratory journies into the women's bathroom had genuine consequences then they may not have been taken in the first place and/or the assailant would have been caught and disciplined to prevent that from developing


research any pedophile, serial killer, rapist, etc they always start gradually - before killing people they perhaps shot the neighborhood dogs, before raping they'd grope women on a subway, etc etc

it genuinely feels like willful ignorance to pretend like this isn't a thing and you can't open up bathrooms as playgrounds for predators

this is a bs answer, you've made several posts since people answered your questions, such as this, not one has responded to the answers

you are being extremely biased and delusional if you can't see your own behavior for what it is

So pre bathroom laws, a predator can enter a womens bathroom, dressed as a man or a woman, supposedly not raising suspicion because it's an "open" bathroom policy After the law, a predator can still enter a womens bathroom without raising suspicion because the law dictates trans men use the womens bathroom, so a cis predator need not even bother trying to disguise himself as a trans women.

IOW the new laws do nothing to keep a predator out of the womens bathroom. No loophole was closed.

again, more posting that's not done in good faith

we by and large didn't have open bathrooms in the past, this is a brand new development while you're treating it like it's been around forever

the new laws are specifically to combat the new policies - had those policies never arisen then the laws would have never been created

just like there's no laws saying men can't go to the sun, perhaps the sun may need protection at some point from men raping it, but until that becomes possible, no laws are needed to protect the sun from me forcibly sticking my dick in it


you're from the military where nearly 50% of women have reported being sexually assaulted, you know first hand what it can be like in certain environments

If you want to stop rapists in public bathrooms you could make the location of the sexual assaults a aggravating factor, like selling drugs near schools and churches or crimes using a gun.

That seems pretty straight forward compared to the suggestion that to stop cis-rapists you need to limit transgender access to certain bathrooms so cis rapists don't feel too comfortable going into female bathrooms for the purposes of raping.

Just writing this foolish notion makes me lose brain cells.

It's not just rape. Just going into a woman's changeroom as a man for sexual gratification (voyeurism) is also a crime and would be highly traumatic to many women.

Also who's talking about limiting access to bathrooms? Bathrooms and changerooms have always been segregated into male/ female, the change people are arguing for is to open women's spaces up to men who claim trans identity. The advantage of this change is that you will save genuine trans people the minor inconvenience of changing in a changeroom that corresponds to their birth sex. The disadvantage is opening up a loophole that significantly increases the risk that bad actors will sexually abuse women and girls. I believe any fair-minded person should accept that it's best to keep the traditional sex-segregation.

Now that I actually have time to read through this carefully and make a serious reply instead of just quick remarks, let's go back to where my question came from:

Several examples have been offered up in this thread of cases that belong on this very long list. One of them is actually of a non-trans person who pretended to be in order to end up in the women's prison where he could sexually assault women. One, based what's posted in this thread since I can't access the article, is of a non-trans male who may have worn a skirt and did go into a girl's bathroom, but there's nothing mentioned about him pretending to have been trans in order to get into that bathroom.

All of the others seem to be of actual trans people. Maybe there is truly a long history of cis men pretending to be trans to gain access to a women's bathroom (even though there wasn't a law against going in to begin with?), and maybe there isn't just a list out there for you to point to, but I'm suspicious that this is instead a pretty rare event.

Are there not places that have passed laws to protect the rights of trans people to use the bathrooms of their choice? Is there data from these places showing an increase in sexual assaults in these bathrooms? I'm guessing the data does not show that, but I'm not spending the time to look that up now. It would be interesting for someone to do.

gangsta, again, you guys keep on harping on red herrings

nobody is arguing that trans need to be kept out of bathrooms to save our children

people are arguing as jack puts quite well, that the laws are to prevent sexual predators from exploiting the removal of segregation by sex in locker rooms and bathrooms


it's extremely obvious you only look at this through the lens of victimhood by your responses

I honestly have no idea how you can read my post and don't think that I already understand that this is the argument. What hasn't been shown, though, is that there is some real problem of sexual predators taking advantage of laws allowing trans women into women's bathrooms in order to commit their crimes. Most examples that were posted in this thread turned out to be of actual trans women.

Your response does not comport with my personal experience. My town just built a new swimming complex, I swim at the high school indoor pool and I belong to the local YMCA. All of these places have traditional m/f locker rooms but each have 6 or more family changing rooms as well (hs only has one). None of the family changing rooms have showers, afaik.
As a guy, we have a bigger issue with fathers that bring their daughters into the make locker room to use the showers or because they don't want to leave their kids alone.

but it has been shown that sexual predators have been infiltrating women's bathrooms and locker rooms due to the new inclusivity pushes

again, nobody is saying that trans are doing it for voyeuristic bathroom access, they are saying scumbags will

rip, i'll miss you luciom

Luciom has been temp banned for one week for equating transgender with mental illness. The post has been deleted

I'm not concerned about just sexual assault, a man entering a woman's changeroom for sexual gratification is also wrong and should be illegal. If the cost of banning this is subjecting genuine Trans people to a minor inconvenience of using a family changeroom or the male changeroom, I'm fine with that.

What's the issue with fathers bringing daughters into a male changeroom? It's not done for sexual gratification and I would imagine it's usually during family swimming slots where there are plenty of young people around at the time. Also it's highly unlikely that perverts would try anything when the father is there, for obvious reasons.

I have a five year old daughter and I'm not saying I would be 100% comfortable taking her to a men's changeroom, but I would be a lot less comfortable with my wife taking her to a women's changeroom knowing that there could be a trans-identified male pervert there.

Has it been shown? The only example that was posted in this thread was of one guy pretending to be trans to get into a women's prison. And maybe there was one guy in a skirt. I have not seen a single other example yet.

You seriously don't think there is more chance there will be a male pervert in the men's changing room than in the women's? That's nuts.

Why is this a bigger issue?

We haven't had any transgender issues in the male changing rooms and I know of none in the female changing rooms. We have an age limit on kids in opposite sex dressing rooms (and a family dressing room) that is routinely disregarded by certain fathers, hence, it's a bigger issue.

Yeah. The chances of encountering a pedophile in a men's changing room almost certainly are much, much higher than your chances on encountering a pedophile in a women's changing room.

It's not about which one is more likely, it's about which one is more dangerous. I'm pretty sure a male pervert in a male change room isn't going to do anything because of the risk of physical retaliation by me and the other dads. Whereas I'd be more concerned about a fully grown male in a female changeroom.

Also a male pervert in a female space is 100% there for a perverted reason and can also be 100% prevented by enforcing a simple rule of sex segregation. A male pervert in a male space might be there just to take a piss and it can't really be banned, so we just have to be aware of the risk and manage it (which parents do by teaching their sons to be wary of creepy men hanging around bathrooms - now it seems like we're teaching our daughters that if they see a creepy man in their changeroom it's okay because he's trans? to me that's messed up).

Again, I'm not saying all trans people are perverts, I'm saying trans people should accept that opening up female spaces to males creates an unacceptable risk, and they should accept using the changerooms and bathrooms of their birth gender for the greater benefit of everyone.

Rules are rules and should usually be followed. But I still don't see an issue - unless these girls are 16 or something.