What the hell is spaceman talking about, forcing people to take hormone’s opposite their gender? When has this happened other than woke ass liberal parents pumping hormones into their kids?

SB is describing the perspective of a strong gender identity which replaces the self. Within the post, SB says this is reality.

Reality is / should be understood through the perspective of gender rather than through the self. This is the claim. When I said earlier that a strong gender identity supplants the self + soul, I wasn’t being facetious.

Are we as human individuals primarily a gender? Can we relate to the self without doing it through gender? These are the foundational questions that need to be answered.

I say that we are first and foremost a self. SB and the trans activists say we are first and foremost a gender. Two different realities.

Btw, this is the central aspect of the woke: the replacement of the self with a strong identity of either gender, sexuality, race, etc.

So the KKK is woke?

Can you grasp the difference between (1) the woke do x and (2) all who do x are woke?

Yea

I think I will wait for SB to explain what he meant rather than accept your interpretations of his statements.

It seems that Meisner has been using the terms puberty blockers and hormones interchangeably, when fact, they are not. Further he was attributing side effects to puberty blockers that are actually attributed to hormone therapy. Despite being misinformed, politically he supports the banning of puberty blockers from being part of a treatment regime of minor patients.

It's also cruel to pump kids, who are just going through a phase, full of repurposed cancer drugs and hormones, potentially sterilising them for life.

If children were somewhere close to 100% correct at identifying their correct gender identity, I'd have no issue. However, the vast majority of children with gender dysphoria grow out of it and need protecting from woke clinicians who are overly zealous in their attempts to indoctrinate them to the cause.

this, el razor is crushing this thread

Furthermore, he has also been using the terms genital mutilation, the removal of genitals, puberty blockers and hormones interchangeably.
You previously said something along the lines of whether they are the gender they say they are or have a mental illness or whatever, we shouldn’t be preventing them from receiving treatment. Which, while I agree with the scientific consensus that gender is innate and not a mental illness, I still agree with your statement.

You don’t have to believe in any of this to think it’s wrong to bully trans kids. I myself am not a progressive.

Having said that, there are very very high standards of care. There are 49 million teenagers and only 4000 of them are on any kind of puberty blockers. That’s a tiny fraction of around 0.00001% . If we multiplied the number of children receiving puberty blockers by 100 times we might be getting close to something like 0.1% I think in these exceptional cases where a team of doctors, psychologists, parents and the child agree they should be respected as a human being. They are the gender they say they are. But let’s throw out scientific consensus, psychology consensus , and all expertise in this area. Let’s throw out 100’s of years of science. Then lets pretend entire families and the teenagers themselves are imagining things because you think “having a feminine side” is the same being transgender. This line of argument was used to “disprove homosexuality “ by the way. It is a delusional fantasy of conspiracy minded men that they somehow know more about what it means to be transgender than the thousands of years worth of transgender people and philosophy themselves.

I don’t know anyone who replaces the self with an identity of gender, sexuality, or race. I do know a lot of angry white people who think they do though!

the non binary original


the cisgender cover

I’ve always found it weird that the average twoplustwo poster finds so little meaning in pictures.

No they do not.

Should a transgender person be primarily viewed as (1) a human individual with a self or (2) as their gender?

If someone affirms the self of a transgender person, how can they ever be accused of treating the transgender person as “not real”?

Yes, they do

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8039393/

1 but we should also respect their gender. I did not say that you don’t believe specific people are not real. I said you don’t believe transgender people are real or who they say they are.

I was talking about people using puberty blockers.

What cause?

I’m encouraged you chose #1 when directly asked, but my concern will remain until I actually observe activists use the words ‘self’ or ‘soul’ even a fraction of the amount that they use ‘gender’.

clearly, I wasn't.

Transgender people hardly use the word gender in normal life and have no interest in debating their rights. Trans women themselves dont want to talk about trans rights.

ok but i was.

?

I’m sure, but I said activists.