"Running the gov't like a household" appeals to those looking for (overly) simple solutions to complex problems.

Stealing from Matt Bruenig's podcast for the Brookings Institute did a study on the Nordic counties' education vs inequality and the Brookings found that the Nordic counties' higher spending and having more comprehensive education resulted in higher learning levels but didn't result in children picking different vocations than their parents any more than US education.

The reason why the Nordics have more income mobility then isn't because the sons of forklift drivers are becoming lawyers but because the wages are so compressed so the penalty or benefit from picking your parents' vocation is much less.

The Brookings thinks this is a kind of cheating and their recommendation is to have Nordic welfare spending with a US employment market, that is a highly unequal market, in order to force kids to change vocation because of the pain of being poor.

Elsewhere it's been pointed out that this 'kids picking a different vocation than their parents is good' really only goes one way. People think it's good to teach poor kids the "culture" of the upper classes with the hope of easing them into an upper class job but virtually no wealthy parent sends their kid to trucking school to teach them a blue collar profession.

Those are fair points. Speaking just for myself, I don't think of the goal as being to achieve any particular GINI coefficient, overall. Or at least that wouldn't be my goal for the kinds of problems or interventions mentioned above. The goal is really just to improve things at the bottom of the distribution, more than to compress the top of the distribution. I think that means recognizing and trying to address some structural issues.

But if funding initiatives to achieve that goal involves more redistribution via taxation and spending, and if that has the side-effect of reducing inequality slightly by modifying the distribution at the top, then that's fine with me. Whether or not lawyers kids become truckers.

Lol

I'm pretty sure that most people think the Iraq War was a bad government decision funded with taxpayer money.

The reality that the needed changes have to come from within those communities. We keep trying to throw PHDs and money at the problem, but it's getting worse, not better. If it were just a poor problem or a minority problem, then you'd see it across those entire populations, but you don't.

While BoredSocial is busy blaming slavery, more kids are being lost.

They need discipline and someone they respect to loudly and proudly exclaim that education matters. Then they should show up to school, not physically fight with each other or call the teacher a ****, participate in the learning process, and just generally cooperate with the figures of authority in their lives. You don't have to be rich to do the things above. Many millions of students do this on a daily basis. It can be done.



I don't want to come off as simply hand-waving your entire post as irrelevant, but re-read his #9 again. Eyebooger seems to equate success and happiness with income levels, but that's his personal definition.

OP talks about personal success and happiness, not income. I can't say that my happiness levels have increased at the same rate as my income. In many ways you could say the opposite. First world problems maybe, but still reality.

Some of the most grass roots conservative types I know are not rich, but they make an honest living doing something they enjoy and live within their means. They work to give their kids a better life than they had. Maybe they're secretly miserable, but if so, they put on a good show. Bottom line is you don't have to be wealthy to be happy or feel successful.

Now's the part where the 2p2 residents attempt to make me feel guilty for having money and not being permanently on cloud nine while there are still children locked in Obama's leftover cages. Then I say, "Why not focus on the kids living in squalor on 6th and Hadley in Milwaukee first before importing more?" and we go in circles and ultimately nothing changes. Internet politics.

Limiting the Federal Government to a strict Constitutional interpretation.

Anything not specifically stated in the Constitution should be left to the states or the people, per 10th amendment.

And, if the world changed, utilize the amendment procedures to alter the Constitution.

The article Hue posted had links to a whole bunch of studies that demonstrate this is completely untrue yet you continue to make judgements based entirely on your anecdotal experience. And you have the gall to say other people are sticking their heads in the sand?

Sorry, most (all?) of those studies were conducted via questionnaire. Given that, I think it is perfectly reasonable to question the efficacy of the study in addressing the issue if it doesn't match first hand anecdotal experience.

Anyways, LOL at anyone reading a Vox article and then deciding it is case closed based on the findings of said article. Talk about confirmation bias.

Believe it or not, when I read an article I don't just take it at face value regardless of where it came from, I actually look at the things that are referenced. The studies are a mixture of in-depth surveys and research based on actual academic results. The results find no significant difference across races when it comes to academic achievement as it relates to popularity or "culture". I maybe overstated how conclusive it is but I trust academic research to be a hell of a lot more accurate than the arbitrary anecdotal evidence Inso is using.

While I'm sure that Vox writer has only the best research methods, all the student questionnaires in the world aren't going to take the place of actually showing up every day and seeing it in person.

I'll tell you flat out you can't even trust the statistics because the administrators are playing defense to make sure their DPI scores are as clean as possible. That's the problem when you rely entirely on the data to determine progress.

Heads in the sand as far as the eye can see.

Literal argument for Kleptocracy itt.

What group?

I think it needs to be noted that the culture came second not first. We created the culture and do things that perpetuate it in ways most of us probably don't even realize

One example...Denzel Washington refused to kiss Julia Roberts in The Pelican Brief, as was scripted. He said something like he didn't want to perpetuate Hollywood's twisted ideals of beauty, etc. Basically, he's aware that black women basically never portrayed love interests in the movies. Only white women

Point being, how can we expect young black girls to have any sense of confidence, self respect, etc, when all they see is white chicks being desired on the big screen? How many of you or anyone in Hollywood even took a second to think about that? Or even note that of movies at that time from a sociological perspective as Denzel Washington seems quite cognizant of? I know it's a lil more complicated than that bc Hollywood, money, and ideals of beauty aren't just about race, but see it from the perspective of how that affects not white kids

Just saying...when we hear or see some ignorant kid be obscenely disrespectful and think where the **** is this kid's manners or who the **** raised this kid, lost in the emotional reaction is the curiosity to wonder how did this kid get to this point and why was he or she driven there? It's not just that he listened to a record or has dumb ****ing parents...There are deeper forces than that that contribute to how each particular situation/environment came to be

Obviously racism is an easy answer. It's simple and profound at the same time. But go deeper than that...NWA became who they were because we perpetuated that. They rapped about exactly the bull**** they were going through in life, and how they felt, pure honesty in a sense. But police treatment perpetuated that. So did record execs who just wanted to make money and exploit the satiable, violent, and crude aspects of the genre created out of a sheer expression by a handful of poor black dudes that just wanted to gtfo of the ghetto and never look back. Isn't that how jazz came to be, or rose to prominence?

Apologies if that was a scattershot post, hard to understand. I think I'm just saying while people within a community perpetuate the results of their own community, the outer world that surrounds it has a strong influence on it, it's origination, and can quite literally strong arm it into stasis unwittingly (unintended consequences like the drug war or the Clinton Crime Bill) or wittingly (institutional, standard, and/or latent racism)

Put maybe even more simply, it can't just be people who care. The system has to care, or no change of significance is possible

Teflon, you are all over the place, but so am I!

Get your points.

As a short story writer, if I was John Grisham I would have demanded a new actor if that was my source material. He may have a bigger point, but don't mess with my source material!

Young black girls need good parenting and strong role models, agree.

NWA had strong points that created a genre. Their voice was heard.

Nature vs. nurture. Every action has a reaction. Trump was reaction to Obama. In 2024 the Democrats will have a reaction to Trump.

Ask a teacher in a failing school how their last parental contact phone call went, or what percentage of their class shows up for parent teacher conferences.

The system can't make people place an emphasis on education, and that education is how you bring yourself out of poverty.

The system cares, but you need some buy-in from the community to really make a difference.

That's cool but I actually attended an "all" black public HS on the south side of Chicago and the "acting white" concept as it pertains to academic achievement is largely a myth. That study is highly flawed.


p.s. lol i grunched

Disclaimer: I know Lil Baby is from Atlanta, but this is still what I thought of when I read this post.

Let’s just go with good grades aren’t as socially valued in certain communities, at least while the kids are young.

A lot of it is cultural and institutional knowledge/attitudes. One of the most surprising things I found during my research into why blacks underperform so dramatically on education (even if you limit to the poorest Americans) is black Americans (at least in the relevant college eligible population) has a statistically stronger aversion to debt (or even college bill, EVEN if they get full aid they feel sticker shock.) this has translated to a lot of black kids sorting themselves out of what we call “reach” schools by not even applying to them.

In my personal experience as tutor, I have also seen kids (before the common app especially) as they wrote essay after essay requesting application fee waivers.

You're stating the obvious, of which I doubt anyone really disagrees with. My point is it's arguable our country makes it impossible to break that cycle, even if it is true it's required to get more people to adhere to the ethos of personal responsibility, perseverance, and discipline

If you think the system cares, then I guess I'm saying I think the system doesn't care enough and the system has the power to increase or reduce the friction through which varying individuals flow within the environment. Hold the individuals responsible, always, but while we don't ever want to make excuses, there actually are excuses. Plenty of blame to go around if you ask me

The military?

Derp?

ICE?

Derp derp?

Anecdotes arent evidence

They are.

The quote or idiom is usually that "anecdotes aren't data", which is true when we use data to mean "information in the context of analysis" or "information that has been analyzed".

But evidence? Anecdotes are most certainly evidence. If I see a green apple, I have reasonable evidence to state that green apples exist. If someone tells me they saw a green apple, a bit more skepticism could perhaps be warranted, but it is not without value as evidence. It should at least (barring reason to believe the person is very untrustworthy) be a decent reason to investigate the matter.

If tens of thousands of teachers independently tell you they all see green apples... decent chance green apples exist.

My life and that of my family isn't really affected all that much if MPS continues to harm the lives of children who attend. When we lived in the actual city limits of Milwaukee, I paid to send my kids to private schools specifically to keep them out of the district. Not everyone is so lucky.

My wife is going on Thursday to help one of her friends put together her classroom at this school, which is bad, but hardly the worst in the district. That's 650+ kids in Milwaukee, 80% of which won't even test up to the level of basic proficiency in reading or math. 650 kids who will be shoved through the grade levels regardless of educational outcome because holding anyone back until they've learned the material hurts DPI scores.

She laughed when seeing the video because she said some of those parents talking to the news are those with the worst behaving kids on campus.

Show up and behave yourself for 7 hours. That's all it would take to make giant leaps in positive outcomes.

Seems kind of silly to send a kid to private school when all it takes is the power of positive thinking to succeed.