It seems to me that not a single one of what were typically labelled GOP/Conservative Economic positions/principles has survived or not been abandoned by the GOP?

Can any one provide any?

For most of my life I considered myself a Small C Conservative, but the Canadian version of such, so well to the left of what a typical US person would define it as.

I'll list what I recall :

1 - Smaller Gov't - Generally speaking the Conservative/GOP position was one of an absolute idea that a smaller gov't was a better one. In no way has the GOP/Conservative actual platform however proved this is a goal or something they would enact, even when they have power to do so.

2- Debt/Deficits (thx uke) - Not sure we can say the GOP ever really supported this beyond lip service but certainly they have proven to be 100% on the opposite side of what they espouse.

3 - Keeping the GOv't or State out of our lives - This speaks to privacy and the idea that gov't needs to stay out of peoples personal lives. In reality the GOP has always pushed for an increasing Police State with ever expanding powers and when it comes to very personal decisions (who to sleep with, abortion, who to associate with [trying to force biz to associate with non vax'd, or post lies on their platforms] the GOP's actions are in direct opposition to their words

4 - Minimum Wage resistance and Trickle Down economics - Increasingly economic science is showing how very wrong the GOP/Conservative position has been on these measures and instead how the opposite of their position is what tends to foster a climate of wealth building in society.

5 - Tariffs/Protectionism - GOP used to, at least give lip service to being the party of Freer Trade and knocking down protectionism. They now have turned to more isolationism policy which is mainly harming the US economy, not helping.

6 - Immigration and GDP growth - GOP used to support immigration as a strength of the nations GDP growth. They were right about that but have turned instead to a closed border position trying to stop even most legal immigration. A policy that if fully enacted will lead to population shrink (births alone are not growing the population) which combined with Deficit spending and growing deficits is a disaster as a shrinking population cannot support growing debt. The old paradigm that Debt and deficits don't matter only works if you have the growth to counter it.

7 - Other?


I think those 6 are the traditional "PILLARS" of GOP/Conservatism when it comes economic positions. Does any one disagree? Would anyone argue that the GOP has not been proven wrong on all of them or reversed themselves and abandoned their prior positions? Did I miss any?

The biggest orthodox conservative lie not on your list is that they give a **** about debt or deficits.

Next, Cuepee goes to the flat earther forum and asks if anyone really thinks that NASA knows wtf they're talking about.

You're right. i meant to give that its own bullet but only loosely touched on that point in bullet (now) 6.

Anyway edited to add that in.

Not sure if you really thought that post thru before hitting reply as it exposes you more than most.

Anyway I would be curious about a genuine reply to the OP from you? Do you think I am wrong in any bullet?

If you read carefully, you're still a flat earther in that story.

This is just more posturbation on your part. Do you honestly think you'd get anyone to actually refute any of this here?

Are you just incapable of doing this yourself?

Don't know if this counts. But I believe that conservatives are more likely to realize that a high percentage of humans are willing to give up a slightly superior financial situation if that allows them to maintain a sliver of hope that it will one day significantly improve, even if they realize that acting on that hope has a slightly lower EV. Or perhaps more to the point, conservatives believe that it is good for society that people, especially talented ones who could settle for upper middle class lives, often feel that way.

how can this be true when they eviscerate tax for the top 1% and corporation and a see national healthcare for everyone as evil communism....
After 40 years from an outstanding failure of trickle down economy, they still do not get it...

Cuepee, i think deregulation and the abolition of the FED should be included.
But maybe it can be included in fact number 1.

Anecdote:
yesterday a Canadian (david Card at berkeley Uni.) won the Nobel price in economic , with 2 other persons.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...ge-wins-nobel/

"In the case of Prof. Card, the award cited research conducted in the early 1990s, which concluded that increasing a country’s minimum wage does not lead to reduced hiring, and that immigration does not harm the employment prospects of native-born workers."

Another nail in the coffin of libertarian economics from empirical evidences , going to be dismiss again as a fake news, conspiracy theories or an attack of free market by a communist prof.....

Bootstraps, just lift.

It seems like you are saying you are incapable.

Is that because I nailed it or you do you have other reasons?

Hmmm I am struggling to get the gist of this.

I think what you are touching on is that many American's seem to hold out the hope they too will one day be amongst the super rich, and enjoying all the benefits, so today they are willing to vote against their own interest and improving the lot of the MC, because they don't want everyone else to benefit ….just themselves.

Not saying that sarcastically. I actually think that is what drives American's more than anything. They will deny themselves to deny perceived "others" benefiting.

Yes i saw this article and posted it yesterday in the "In Other News" thread" and it was part of the reason I started this thread to expand on it.

The Minimum Wage suppression never used to be a GOP issue. Both they and the Dem's would always take turns raising it to keep pace with inflation. It is only in the last few decades that the GOp has said 'No' to each and every time it brought up to be raised.

The US following WW2 certainly believed in the power of building the Middle Class and the country enjoyed unquestionable growth and success across all groups (true trickle up and down) as a result.

China is following that blueprint right now and seeing the same type of fruits across the country, that follow.

In contrast Russia followed an Oligarch model of Trickle Down where they put all the Capital in an increasingly uber rich caste and the country as a whole has suffered due to that.

The US now has switched to something much closer to the Russian Oligarch model than the prior US one. This belief that making the super rich, much richer is what will benefit everyone below. A failed and dangerous path to follow.

They don't want to be super rich. But they do want something to look forward to.

If that was true , why every year the poorest states in the US are always dominated for years at 95%-100% by republicans ?
It’s almost always dominated by like 9-10/10 or 13-14/15 poorest states by republicans

Conservative/libertarian economics do not works , especially in a globalised economy .

The day Republican will start believe in empirical evidences (like science for example) and stop believing in fairy tales ( religion , big corps or oligarchs) and evolve to the 21st century reality, they will start to thrive again….

To me cuepee is 100% right on what drives republicans as a whole .
Obv. Exception can exist .

Ok. But they think their ascension to the very comfortable middle class should involve blocking others from ascending at all.

The GOP has played upon the worst elements of human nature that is to make others feel better by denying others benefit so that they, in contrast can feel better/superior, if they get those benefits. It then seems like an achievement.

So the focus and what they "look forward to" is the contrast. That is ugly.

they have all done pretty much exactly as intended

So what you are saying is that the only solution is the democrats

Yes they want government everywhere

As for Deficits Heck just put it on your capital one card

They want government in every aspect of your life

They keep promising a minimum wage than forget their promise . Note Florida a GOP state has a minimum wage of $15

Immigration No crisis here keep walking

Could it be that the average voter has no party representing their side?

The GOP is full of it but the democrats are just as much . Its all about power

10 months in you call Biden's presidency a success?

Where did you get that argument from?

I said or suggested no such thing and have plenty of criticisms of the Dem.

I find your post so weird. It assumes if you don't like A or call out A that automatically means you are endorsing B.

Can you explain that thinking?


Both are for ever expanding gov't, just in different areas.


Both are terrible on the deficits, but the Trump/GOP is the only one who says 'Pile on Debt' while tying to take away the way to pay for it.

And no, I am not speaking to the current 'debt ceiling' stuff. I am talking about 'cutting immigration' such that the US population declines while at the same time adding record debt as Trump did.

A recipe for future bankruptcy, which proves Trump remains the Expert at that.

Raising debt is not harmful if you have growth outstripping the debt. Curtailing growth and causing contraction at the same time as massively raising the debt is a disaster.



Did you flip here to the GOP? Do i need to list the ways the GOP is trying to expand the gov't into control of citizens lives, again?


Yes, at a Federal level they both play lip service to Minimum Wage and I would concede the Dem's are worse as they 'pretend' they are for raising where at least the GOP does not.



There really is not a crisis, thus why outside it popping up as a campaign issue for short bursts, it largely goes away.

The US can and does handle occasional spikes and they have always happened. That MSM puts 24/7 cameras on it now does not a 'crisis' make.

But explain to me what you think the crisis is? Do you think it is solely the people trying to get in?

Yes that is me.


Agreed.

They are bad but not as bad imo.

Agreed.


Not fully, certainly.

they are playing the usual game of gutting their own promises, proving they were mostly hollow election campaign bait to begin with.

But still what they are doing is, at least in part in line with some Democratic principles.

The point of this thread was to point nothing the GOP does now is in line with prior espoused GOP principles.

They have shifted to 2 newer principles only. The Courts, and Tax cuts for the Rich. That is it.

I mean, maybe it's just me but.....

If 70% of the economy is consumer spending and a tiny percentage of the population hoards the majority of the money doesn't that stress the system to the point of failure ?

And don't both parties work toward that end when they enact laws and policies that benefit the 1% ?

This is the same old, same old.

The Dems are the lesser evil by quite a bit but that's like saying Charlie Manson did less damage than Stalin.

A government by the people, for the people would go a long way in solving this endless loop.

That's the cliff notes.

As far as deficits, they're mostly war debt. It's fine to keep increasing military spending but look at the drama when you want the government to do something for the people who pay for it.

The FF's revolted for less. It's freaking amazing the people stand for endless war abroad and poverty at home. Stupid is as stupid does I guess.

Yes.

And the Russia/China models are very instructive.

Russia had a chance post Gorbachev and Yeltsin to really invest in building the middle class and becoming a true pan European/Asian power. All of the elements were in place.

Instead with Putin they embraced an Oligarch model, of funneling the bulk of the wealth to a handful of Oligarch's at the expense of the Nation. GDP declined but the rich got super rich.

China could have done the same. The handful of Powerful rich could be exponentially more rich, but instead they are focused on making CHina, the Nation, win. It is a long term plan and the same one the US had post WW2 and sadly we now see the US tilting towards the Oligarch model, and we see it already destroying long term value.

And why? So the Oligarchs can have increases in money that are largely meaningless?

Yeah, the prior GOP was much more aligned with libertarian values, especially in regard to economics.

I wouldn't define owning the majority of money capital goods and companies as hoarding money. In fact, considering that they unhoarded themselves of their money to acquire the means of production in the first place, more like just the opposite.