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Old 09-11-2020, 10:34 AM   #176
MrWookie
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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I don't dispute that, but I also know something is better than nothing.
The liability protection for businesses that force their workers back to the office is literally worse than nothing.
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Old 09-11-2020, 10:46 AM   #177
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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At some point, even if you think the GOP is the worst people in the world, you have to play the hand that is dealt. The D's decided not to play.
The hand that was dealt was the GOP can't get anything passed without some Dem support. They decided not to budge on their number, as if they have some kind of negotiating leverage.

Looks to me like the GOP didn't play their hand.
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Old 09-11-2020, 10:48 AM   #178
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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The hand that was dealt was the GOP can't get anything passed without some Dem support. They decided not to budge on their number, as if they have some kind of negotiating leverage.

Looks to me like the GOP didn't play their hand.
However you want to say it, it's undeniable the D's could have got $400 a week for the unemployed and another $1200+ for most families, among many other things, which had enough GOP support to pass. They decided nothing was better than that. The $2T never was going to pass because of the evil GOP....great argument. You get the blame the GOP. What now?
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Old 09-11-2020, 10:53 AM   #179
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
However you want to say it, it's undeniable the D's could have got $400 a week for unemployed and another $1200+ for most families, among many other things. They decided nothing was better than that. The $2T never was going to pass because of the evil GOP....great argument. What now?
But also nothing, as in literally nothing, no unemployment insurance at all, for workers uncomfortable going back to the office when forced to and have to quit rather than being laid off now that their employers have immunity when forcing their workers back, and also nothing for workers who go back to work and get seriously sick or even die because of their employer's greed and unwillingness to take proper safety precautions.
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Old 09-11-2020, 10:57 AM   #180
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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The liability protection for businesses that force their workers back to the office is literally worse than nothing.
That's absurd. First, that does not circumvent OSHA, or the NLRB. The other thing is, I can't imagine any person/group winning a lawsuit based on stuff that occurs during a pandemic. Ultimately, if you don't feel safe at work, you don't have to go to work. You can't be "forced" to go back to work. I guess you are thinking they would lose their jobs. But if it's unsafe to go to work, you've kinda lost your job already.
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Old 09-11-2020, 10:58 AM   #181
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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But also nothing, as in literally nothing, no unemployment insurance at all, for workers uncomfortable going back to the office when forced to and have to quit rather than being laid off now that their employers have immunity when forcing their workers back, and also nothing for workers who go back to work and get seriously sick or even die because of their employer's greed and unwillingness to take proper safety precautions.
They don't have immunity. They just can't be sued. OSHA prevents you from getting fired for not working due to an unaddressed safety issue, and you can collect unemployment if they fire you for not working because of that.
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:02 AM   #182
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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They don't have immunity. They just can't be sued.
LOL
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:00 PM   #183
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
They don't have immunity. They just can't be sued. OSHA prevents you from getting fired for not working due to an unaddressed safety issue, and you can collect unemployment if they fire you for not working because of that.
So all the burden is on the people with the least power in the organization.

How does that promote good health during a crisis ?

jfc.

Do you honestly want to die drowning in your own lung fluid ?

I can think of better short term goals.
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Old 09-11-2020, 02:53 PM   #184
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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So all the burden is on the people with the least power in the organization.

How does that promote good health during a crisis ?

jfc.

Do you honestly want to die drowning in your own lung fluid ?

I can think of better short term goals.


Burden? I'm not understanding that . If you feel it's unsafe to work....you don't work, and won't get paid. If the company shuts down because it's not safe to operate, you don't get paid. Why would you go to work if you don't think it's safe? The company does have the right to operate, absent a shut down order. You have a choice to operate with them, or not. In making that choice, you can leverage the legal protections afforded to you to put the employer in the predicitiment of doing the right thing (i.e. not denying your UE claim), or they can face the challenges from NLRB/OSHA, especially if you work in concert with your colleagues. With that said, you can't put a company in a no win situation.



What possible liability would a company face? If the company did something unsafe, they still have to deal with OSHA. If they don't allow their employees to discuss health and safety concerns, they have to deal with the NLRB and OSHA. If they take action against you for any of those things, you have legal protections with the aforementioned agencies, and the media.


I'm a big fan of the NLRB and OSHA. I'm also not unaware of the difficult circumstances workers face, which I'm facing personally (I have an active NLRB complaint that's probably going to be successful, along with a few other colleagues who were in the same position as me) which is why I think a pragmatic response from D's was warranted, rather than play politics and a game of principals when it comes to the second round of stimulus. If you know the GOP won't budge on your demands, having your constituents go without is the worst possible response to that, IMO. Besides, I'm rather sure the liability shield could have been negotiated out. The issue has been about the amount the D's wanted to get, mostly due to the city bailouts.

I don't give a damn about having the ability to sue a company, I much rather have what was being offered by the GOP a month ago and I'm pretty sure my colleagues feel the same way, despite them being hardcore Democrats. Holding out for more when you can get something when you are suffering is not my idea of pragmatism, or leadership. It's certainly not representative of what I need.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 09-11-2020 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 09-11-2020, 03:46 PM   #185
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
Burden? I'm not understanding that . If you feel it's unsafe to work....you don't work, and won't get paid. If the company shuts down because it's not safe to operate, you don't get paid. Why would you go to work if you don't think it's safe? The company does have the right to operate, absent a shut down order. You have a choice to operate with them, or not. In making that choice, you can leverage the legal protections afforded to you to put the employer in the predicitiment of doing the right thing (i.e. not denying your UE claim), or they can face the challenges from NLRB/OSHA, especially if you work in concert with your colleagues. With that said, you can't put a company in a no win situation.



What possible liability would a company face? If the company did something unsafe, they still have to deal with OSHA. If they don't allow their employees to discuss health and safety concerns, they have to deal with the NLRB and OSHA. If they take action against you for any of those things, you have legal protections with the aforementioned agencies, and the media.


I'm a big fan of the NLRB and OSHA. I'm also not unaware of the difficult circumstances workers face, which I'm facing personally (I have an active NLRB complaint that's probably going to be successful, along with a few other colleagues who were in the same position as me) which is why I think a pragmatic response from D's was warranted, rather than play politics and a game of principals when it comes to the second round of stimulus. If you know the GOP won't budge on your demands, having your constituents go without is the worst possible response to that, IMO. Besides, I'm rather sure the liability shield could have been negotiated out. The issue has been about the amount the D's wanted to get, mostly due to the city bailouts.

I don't give a damn about having the ability to sue a company, I much rather have what was being offered by the GOP a month ago and I'm pretty sure my colleagues feel the same way, despite them being hardcore Democrats. Holding out for more when you can get something when you are suffering is not my idea of pragmatism, or leadership. It's certainly not representative of what I need.



It would be much more effective if your employer had a normal amount of responsibility. Being pro actively protected for what they're going to do is nonsense.


Besides you don't like unions so I assume you aren't in one. And if they peg you as a trouble maker your days will be numbered. Whether you know it or not.


And, I will ask it again, ......HOW DOES THAT MAKE THE COUNTRY SAFER ?
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Old 09-11-2020, 04:30 PM   #186
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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Besides you don't like unions so I assume you aren't in one. And if they peg you as a troublemaker your days will be numbered. Whether you know it or not.

This is kind of funny. That knowledge that you think I might be unaware of, is precisely why my (and my colleagues) NLRB case is likely to be successful, and as a consequence of that NLRB charge is why the company most likley did not dispute my UE claim (their reasons for terminating me would have become public record). So, I have first hand knowledge of knowing that if my rights are violated, I have recourse, and it's because I generally know labor law and how to work within it. I gave them multiple opportunities to do the right thing, and made clear I was working in concert with my colleagues, and they did not, and they took action against us.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 09-11-2020 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 09-11-2020, 08:42 PM   #187
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
This is kind of funny. That knowledge that you think I might be unaware of, is precisely why my (and my colleagues) NLRB case is likely to be successful, and as a consequence of that NLRB charge is why the company most likley did not dispute my UE claim (their reasons for terminating me would have become public record). So, I have first hand knowledge of knowing that if my rights are violated, I have recourse, and it's because I generally know labor law and how to work within it. I gave them multiple opportunities to do the right thing, and made clear I was working in concert with my colleagues, and they did not, and they took action against us.

Yeah, so you got lucky this time.

Your luck will run out though. Especially if you make a habit of being a trouble maker. But whatever. Good for you as long as you can get away with it. Most people can't at all and sooner or later you'll hit a wall.

You're playing a negative ev game and you just won a few hands. Keep grinding and you'll see the odds come around.
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:35 PM   #188
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Re: Congressional Stimulus Talks Stall...

Trump is caving. He really wants his bigly signature mailed out on some more checks before November.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...e11_story.html
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