[mod note: excised from the George Floyd thread (and lightly edited)]

Have any of you pro-communism people ever lived under a communist regime or has relatives that did? I was born and raised in a communist country and I can assure you that communism is the utmost scum. Are you even aware that all communists regimes have conducted mass killings of their own peoples? In a communist country, all of the identified rioting people and their uninvolved families would have far more serious problems to deal with than tear gas. And if you had an open conversation about your view, you would be in a lot of trouble as well. Others on this forum sharing a similar origin will likely agree.

But yeah, you are probably a rich white child from a democratic country, merely chanting what others chant.

I debated this before with pro communists on the capitalism thread and their justification for it is as follows:
See, Stalin's Great Terror, the Gulags, the Cambodian Killing Fields, the Cultural Revolution, Ceacescu, mass executions and North Korea- none of those things were "real Communism" but Stalinism Leninism Maoism etc. And that's how it's excused. One day, When a country finally functions under Communism with a decent economy without the mass murder then it'll be "real Communism" but all the other failures with their mass graves and horrific human rights records just weren't the real deal. So Communism is still cool.
You can't reason with fanatics.

well its pretty easy to win an argument when you can just make up the other side and report on it years later.

but the fact is the Soviet Union was certainly a better society for the majority of the citizenry than what came after. And certainly a large percentage of the USA population would be far better off if transported in time and place to there as well.

btw, you mention the Gulag system. any idea how it compares to the USA prison system?

Yeah. That must have been it

Ah. Here we go.



And whataboutism to boot, fair play to ya, if it's not broken don't fix it eh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

And the crappy US penal system is like a five star resort compared to Soviet era gulags and in no way comparable. Again you can't reason with fanatics but if you like Communism so much go live in one of the five remaining Communist countries and don't let the door hit yer arse on the way out.

I'll leave you with the soviet version of Rocky IV.
да здравствует родина!!

Honestly, what are you even talking about? I was born in the Soviet-Union. Every Russian on this forum is probably disgusted by your ignorance. You're presenting your foolish opinion as something "certain" and compare Gulags to US prisons? I wasn't aware that the death toll in the US prison system exceeded one million in any decade since its inception.

I better leave before more abysses reveal.

Yeah im sure they would of been rolling out the red carpet for The African Americans in the old Soviet Union.

Dead set never read anything that ****ing ******ed in my life, surely he is trolling?

its not whataboutsim when its a direct comparison of the same aspects of the discussed ideologies.

you cant come in and be like omg communism so bad when the alternative is worse and you are trying to defend that alternative.

but yes, screaming whataboutism is indeed a nice technique to stifle any sort of discussion without needing to refute anything.

Now Victor you were engaging in actual fuhreelz no foolin' whataboutism in true Soviet Union propaganda style, don;t complain about being called on it bro. Alternative is nowhere near as bad as Communism never mind worse and the reasons why were already covered in the capitalism thread, so need to rehash them on a separate thread that's not about such things.

you have no refutation so you whine about whataboutism. so sad.

imagine hopping into a thread where USA police are gasing torturing and murdering people and acting like our criminal justice system is great.

lets roll tape

leftists: USA police is are bad. Prison system is bad. We gotta fix this.
corpus and the other clowns: buh buh muh muh communism! gulags! (note, this is not whatabtoutism bc reasons?)
leftists: well akshuawally, USSR treated criminals better and had less of them.
capitalist bootlickers: whataboutsim! whataboutism! whataboutism!

USSR has less criminals because they execute enemies of the state.

I was born in the Soviet Union and I second this.

Sufre I did when I said the crappy US penal system was like a five star resort compared to Soviet Gulags and if you think otherwise, you're seriously deluded. As I said you can't reason with fanatics.


I never brought up communism.If you're a communist you're a useful idiot at best, or a fanatic.

No they didn't
Yeah cuz they shot 'em all or else worked them to death. But follow whatever ideology you like, just don't expect sane people to entertain you or your justification for the USSR or Communism for so much as a nanosecond

Victor, your takes on the Soviet Union are shockingly misinformed, to the point of ignorance. We can pick that up in another thread if you like.

I think you are misinformed about the scale of the misery of our prison and law enforcement system

but ya there should be an end all be all capitalism vs communism thread

Whether other countries have or had more abusive penal systems than the United States tells us nothing about what the U.S. penal system should look like. Whether countries like China and Turkey repress dissent more aggressively than the United States tells us nothing about what the U.S. government response to dissent should be.

I am very well informed about the scale of misery in the US prison system, partly from reading about it voraciously and partly from personal experience. I am also well informed about the Soviet gulag system, partly from reading about it voraciously and partly from first-hand accounts of people I know personally. So, I assure you I am qualified to speak on this.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/4...works-1720850/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/4...15/index5.html

Yeah, if I wanted to defend communism, I don't think I would start with defending Soviet gulags, even on a comparative basis. It would be better to argue that you can have communism without the misery of the gulags.

For anyone who is interested in accounts of life in the Soviet Union, I highly recommend Secondhand Time by Svetlana Alexievich. She won the Nobel prize for literature. The book is a series of first hand accounts of life in the Soviet Union before the fall, and life in Russia during the era of gangster capitalism that took root in the immediate wake of the fall.

So you US kids now really have the audacity to educate members of this forum who grew up in the soviet union and have family members and acquaintances that fell victim to this very system, by referencing a 2+2 thread and a book?

I'm not from the US and my linking was simply to highlight that the topic had already been covered with the implication that they should start a new thread on the topic, seeing as it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Or maybe you should start your own thread highlighting the flaws of the Soviet Union and then Victor can counterpoint etc. As in counterpoint not here in this thread...

I don't think that's what they were trying to do.

I end by saying that there is at least one communist regime watching from the shadows, while its economy is running at full speed for now almost two month again. Convinced, like the rest of the world, that the US will eventually corrode and all that will be left are some gender-reassigned anti-fascists, eagerly awaiting the soon to be biggest US debtholder to take over so that they can join the masses of ever so happily chanting comrades.

Btw, are you guys going into quarantine again after this?

Gender reassigned? Wow.

Our " justice system" in general is a disgrace. At least 90% of people in jail/prison shouldn't be there, in my opinion.