Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) - Page 28 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

But Saudis, in general, are less socialist. They are under the category of moderately free in the index of economic freedom (#63), while Venezuela is in the repressed category (#177).
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

It looks like after realizing that their economic system is a big failure, Venezuela is going less socialist.

https://goodwordnews.com/dollars-flo...hinese-system/

"The regime eventually accepted the dollar as a legitimate currency, opened up the state’s oil industry to foreign private investment, and relaxed import restrictions for private companies, meaning supermarket shelves are again relatively full."

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06-05-2021 , 06:37 AM

#678

nucleardonkey

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 1,252

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds

The Saudis seem to do pretty well socializing oil wealth.

What do you think the difference is ?

Is it socialized for noncitizens or only for citizens?

If you don't count half the population as people, it's easy to achieve equality.

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06-05-2021 , 06:46 AM

#679

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,144

Quote:

Originally Posted by nucleardonkey

Is it socialized for noncitizens or only for citizens?

If you don't count half the population as people, it's easy to achieve equality.

Don't forget that XX chromosome thing too. Quarter of the people.

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06-11-2021 , 11:57 AM

#680

harkin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 4,858

Just like the troops storming Omaha Beach.

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06-11-2021 , 02:56 PM

#681

John21

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin

Just like the troops storming Omaha Beach.

Quote

06-13-2021 , 07:43 AM

#682

RFlushDiamonds

cool

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by nucleardonkey

Is it socialized for noncitizens or only for citizens?

If you don't count half the population as people, it's easy to achieve equality.

I assume Venezuela is only socialized for citizens as well.

I was just pointing out that the primary cause of failure is likely not 'socialism' per se.

Maybe it's even US sanctions and tampering. But...you know, if I stub my toe it's because somewhere in the world there's a socialist doing something social.

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06-13-2021 , 12:37 PM

#683

PokerPlayingGamble

Dispute Unresolved

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4,669

The hyperinflation and price controls (as well as currency controls) probably didn't help things in Venezuela either.

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06-14-2021 , 09:46 AM

#684

Tien

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,626

It's not possible to run a country effectively in 2021 without capitalism being one of the countries main pillars, private property, etc etc. And yes Finland / Sweden are all capitalist countries.

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06-16-2021 , 08:17 AM

#685

RFlushDiamonds

cool

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

It's not possible to run a country effectively in 2021 without capitalism being one of the countries main pillars, private property, etc etc. And yes Finland / Sweden are all capitalist countries.

Nothing capitalistic about selling oil on the world market.

Good point.

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06-16-2021 , 11:34 AM

#686

stinkubus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 4,422

Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin

US sanctions play no role? We have the power to completely cut other countries out of the global economy. We can force this sort of poverty an almost anyone on Earth.

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06-17-2021 , 03:43 PM

#687

Sun Tzu

laconic

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 84,770

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds

Personally I don't think communism is a cure for capitalism. I think it's a reaction to it negative aspects. So imo, if you don't allow the negative aspects to plague the population and capitalism is allowed to motivate innovation and upward mobility and the other pro capitalist traits it possesses you get a sort of win/win. Which is what most modern nations have trended towards.

What are the benefits of having a parasitic owner class?

or of having a ruling class at all?

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06-17-2021 , 10:20 PM

#688

5 south

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,687

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

What are the benefits of having a parasitic owner class?

or of having a ruling class at all?

They're job creators bro.

Quote

06-17-2021 , 11:20 PM

#689

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

It's not possible to run a country effectively in 2021 without capitalism being one of the countries main pillars, private property, etc etc. And yes Finland / Sweden are all capitalist countries.

Evergreen.

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06-18-2021 , 12:32 AM

#690

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

What are the benefits of having a parasitic owner class?

or of having a ruling class at all?

Microsoft Windows.

Quote

06-18-2021 , 09:06 AM

#691

nucleardonkey

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 1,252

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Don't forget that XX chromosome thing too. Quarter of the people.

That's the half I was talking about

Quote

06-18-2021 , 09:07 AM

#692

nucleardonkey

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 1,252

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Evergreen.

Norway is energy rich. Not a good example.

Sweden is overrated.

Quote

06-18-2021 , 12:42 PM

#693

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by nucleardonkey

Norway is energy rich. Not a good example.

Sweden is overrated.

Oh, right, the US hardly produces any energy.

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06-18-2021 , 01:52 PM

#694

campfirewest

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Oh, right, the US hardly produces any energy.

Your link shows that Norway produces almost 10x what the US does on a per capita basis, and nearly matches Saudi Arabia.

Quote

06-18-2021 , 01:56 PM

#695

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Your link shows that Norway produces almost 10x what the US does on a per capita basis, and nearly matches Saudi Arabia.

Energy isn't the only thing of value that a country can produce. USA and Norway are neck and neck for GDP per capita. Not sure why oil is the only product that can be used to fund a social safety net.

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06-18-2021 , 02:31 PM

#696

Cuepee

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,339

Wouldn't that make is easier for the US to dedicate 'Gov't captured Oil Revenues' for social programs, infrastructure, etc being as their revenue sources are diverse and thus not as vulnerable to fluctuation or one source being diminished as greatly.

I mean just earmark all Oil and Gas related revenues to those things, Norway chooses to prioritize and see where that gets things.

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06-18-2021 , 04:25 PM

#697

Victor

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Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 72,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by nucleardonkey

Norway is energy rich. Not a good example.

Sweden is overrated.

USA has an insane amount of resources.

you know who else has a ton of resources? pretty much every colonial state in Africa, South America, SE Asia, etc etc.

its almost like there is enough wealth and resources to take care of everyone if it was hoarded or artificially kept scarce to force almost all of the population into subsistence so that they can be exploited to continue to create wealth for the hoarders.

Quote

06-18-2021 , 04:53 PM

#698

RFlushDiamonds

cool

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

What are the benefits of having a parasitic owner class?

or of having a ruling class at all?

Oh, none.

But the incentive to get rich does motivate innovation.

I mean so does the desire to not die from cancer so it's not as if I'm going to die on this hill, but...you need a few carrots even in the most democratic of utopias.

Also, if you have good health care and our neighbor (or children) don't, it just makes you feel all that much more like a winner.